Slight swelling of the fetlock and mild lameness....

[laceyfreckle]

so, after her lovely maiden 45 min walk hack with my 9yr old son yesterday (hack news will be added short.ly with pics on seperate thread) Ellie seemed a little lame on her hind leg and the fetlock was slightly swollen again, so I rested her in the stable for the night until this morning. She is still lame on it this morning, particularly on turns where that foot is the inside of the turn (it's her near hind) and is reluctant to go into trot.

To be fair the last week or so her fetlock has looked a little puffy and she is a bit off on it but as she is only doing lead rein work and only in walk and trot it didn't seem too bad and went up and down a bit. She has a tendancy to stand with that leg more forward then her other hind leg.

It is hear say that she had a accident with that fetlock years and years ago but only what someone said that someone said that a friend of someone said if you know what i mean and as far as i know she has never seen a vet for it.

I have some bute and i am tempted to give some to her to see if she comes sound on it? I assume i would need to take her off of it before vet sees her so it doesn't mask anything, but not sure how long that would need to be? (although i would tell him i had given it to her) Vet is coming out on half price visit day next wednesday but to be far although she is insured i am a bit worried they will just say put on bute and see how she is anyway and then for me to not have any answers either.

I would prefer it x-rayed to put my mind at rest and that could be done on-site i think but would prefer not nerve blocks unless i have to as it means taking her to the vet clinic etc. How much can be seen with just a x-ray?

I am assuming the most likely thing for it to be will be a bit of arthiritis/DJD, so just wondering what the best line of action to see if this is the case would be.

she is a fanatastic first pony so would really love to be able to keep her going and comfortable in work in walk,trot,canter, hacking and the odd tiny x-pole up to 2ft.

 

[Trewsers]

I would prefer it x-rayed to put my mind at rest and that could be done on-site i think but would prefer not nerve blocks unless i have to as it means taking her to the vet clinic etc. How much can be seen with just a x-ray?

t.

They did Joe's nerve blocks there and then when he came in from the field when his fetlock had begun to drop (last year when his ligament finally snapped). Can your vet not do them at the yard? Or are they different? (Perhaps they might need to be more extensive?)
They can see quiet a bit from an x ray - I remember Storm had them as part of her lameness investigation a couple of years back.
Appreciate you don't want to take the pony to the vets - it is hard work! (Unless you have a box etc)
Lots of healing vibes anyway - and hope you find out what the cause is. I would probably be tempted to rest and give some bute and see how she fares? (Not box rest - unless you really have to, but just no riding?)

 

[Trewsers]

.

I am assuming the most likely thing for it to be will be a bit of arthiritis/DJD, so just wondering what the best line of action to see if this is the case would be.

she is a fanatastic first pony so would really love to be able to keep her going and comfortable in work in walk,trot,canter, hacking and the odd tiny x-pole up to 2ft.

If it is DJD then there are the steroid injections they can have which Joe benefited from when we first bought him. They kept him sound for a long time and if you have insurance then I'd go for it - if its an option (though be warned: there is a bit of box-rest involved afterwards).

 

[laceyfreckle]

They did Joe's nerve blocks there and then when he came in from the field when his fetlock had begun to drop (last year when his ligament finally snapped). Can your vet not do them at the yard? Or are they different? (Perhaps they might need to be more extensive?)
They can see quiet a bit from an x ray - I remember Storm had them as part of her lameness investigation a couple of years back.
Appreciate you don't want to take the pony to the vets - it is hard work! (Unless you have a box etc)
Lots of healing vibes anyway - and hope you find out what the cause is. I would probably be tempted to rest and give some bute and see how she fares? (Not box rest - unless you really have to, but just no riding?)

Thanks, yes i have turned her out today and will probably leave out tonight. I do have stables and they come in a couple of nights a week if they want a rest or the field is muddy/wet etc as keeping her in didn't seem to improve it and she seems comfy enough in the field .

I am tempted to give her the bute for a few days just to see what difference it makes, then when vet suggests a week on bute i can say i've already done that??! thats my thinking anyway.

I didn't know you could do nerve blocks on site - i have always had to take them in for nerve blocking but have never actually asked.

We have a trailer but we live 45 mins each way from the vet (diesel cost is quite high) and i would have to ask hubby to tow it (and he would moan).

good to know x-rays can show a fair bit as i know they can be done mobile, so i think i might push for them first and see if they show up enough on their own.

 

[laceyfreckle]

If it is DJD then there are the steroid injections they can have which Joe benefited from when we first bought him. They kept him sound for a long time and if you have insurance then I'd go for it - if its an option (though be warned: there is a bit of box-rest involved afterwards).

yes, i had read that and i think that would be a possibility for us to give her another few years of ridden work.

that's if it is that, I have no idea if it is but it is definitely involves her fetlock which doesn't seem as mobile as her other one and is slightly swollen/thickened but not dropped or anything (but not really any heat) so not sure what else it could be.

On the plus side her front feet are looking good now and lami has not been a problem for a while now - so getting somewhere with that!

 

[Trewsers]

On the plus side her front feet are looking good now and lami has not been a problem for a while now - so getting somewhere with that!

Of course your vet would tell you this anyways, but just be aware that the injections can cause lami if your horse or pony is prone. Luckily for us, at the time when Joe had his, he'd never had it (he developed low grade lami many years later). Just worth remembering - but probs your vet would tell you anyways.

 

[laceyfreckle]

Of course your vet would tell you this anyways, but just be aware that the injections can cause lami if your horse or pony is prone. Luckily for us, at the time when Joe had his, he'd never had it (he developed low grade lami many years later). Just worth remembering - but probs your vet would tell you anyways.

Thanks, yes - I think her lami is probably metabolic/cushings induced as since she has been on her cushing supplement she has started shedding and her coat has changed to look a lot nicer and she hasn't had lami since she has been on it but thank you for the warning too.

I have a pic of her fetlock i will put up in a min

 

[laceyfreckle]

Pics were taken a couple of days ago when i first thought to take some to keep a eye but it is similar again now

 

[Trewsers]

Fingers crossed a few days resting helps.

 

[sjp1]

I think I would be tempted to put her on bute for a few days and see what difference it makes. My vet nerve blocked Tobes in the stable, so yes, unless you have swanky vets who insist on horses coming in for nerve blocking (which the vets I used when I had my TB did), it is perfectly possible to do it at home, saving much hassle and stress on everyones part.

If the bute makes the difference, it will make the vets job easier I think, because I would imagine that would be their first suggestion anyway.

Hope it sorts, she sounds a fab little pony.

 

[Lemme]

we have a similar issue at the moment, Charlie is just getting over bi-lateral underrun abcessing to both backs 3 trims back and then bad bruising to front off - 3 weeks ago - we have had to bring his trim forward to 4 weeks this time, two feet are good and perfect shape, the front which was trimmed and dressed but remedially due to the bruising has a slipper and the back on the same side which was the worst affected by the abcessing has the same type of growth - he is a perfect weight and not on good grazing although its obvious the fresh growth has affect hoof growth - he has a bit of puffiness to the back , no heat in feet or walls, legs all fine other than to fetlock on hind which is very minimal, he stiff on the walk - suspect due to the imbalance and the fact he is being pushed back on his heels on the off side but balanced on the near, hes happy in himself, mooching around the field and eating, drinking and pooing normally, not protesting at feet been picked out - if hes not good in the foot or leg the first thing we see is a reluctance to have foot done - with the farrier being pulled forward we have given him 1/2 bute this morning just to help him as hes out on hill pasture - will give him 1/2 tonight and then check in the morning, suspect the imbalance and heel position is affecting the ligaments/fetlock action so the sooner the farrier gets him sorted the better, he had just started walking out again for 5 minutes on the road and was wanting to get a move on last Friday - what a difference a few days make - suspect by this time next week he will be back to normal and back to starting his workout again. We have not ruled out abcessing under the bruising on the front as it was quite severe - but at the moment hes not displaying the usual signs of that.
I would give bute for a couple of days and see how you go - vets usually try it first if nothing is onbvious so if the butes not making any difference then that will prob help them.

 

[laceyfreckle]

Thanks everyone, I have spoken to the vet and put her on bute, although will take her off it on friday (thursday) be her last dose as vet is coming to see her on the tuesday (had to change appointment)

I have asked for it to be x-rayed as i don't really want vet to turn up go hmmm, thanks for the £40 call out - she is a bit lame and puffy at the fetlock isn't she.......I'll come back to do x,y,z (and charge me call out each time!)

She is the only pony in the world that seems to like the taste of bute so it was no problem getting it into her and it does seem to have helped in that she not lame as such on it and stands better with her legs in a better stance with the bute but it is still swollen and when she walks it seems to mechanically fail (if that is a way of putting it!) in that when her foot touches the ground the fetlock seems to bend outwards a bit which makes for it not to look quite right.

Lemme, yes we have had numerous problems with her feet and a little tiny bit of bruising on her fronts about 8 weeks back, but must admit they have got a lot better in general in the last 8 weeks, are starting to go concave underneath again and are losing their slippered look. She is due to be trimmed again next thursday although have spoken to farrier and he is quite pleased with her feet and doesn't think they are the cause, especially as her backs have always been quite good. Hope Charlie continues to improve with his

 

[Lemme]

Glad to hear the bute has helped to stand her up a bit and make her more comfortable - lets hope you get to the bottom of it without breaking the bank.
the mechanical failure displayed - yes this is what Charlie was showing - quite alarming at first - he could stretch back but forward movement was pronounced and he was putting minimal weight on between strides, this is what he was like last year when he had field injury but this time its no where near as bad.

Charlie is much improved this morning, he had 1/2 a bute overnight and was stood up and moving much better, with the bute in his system yesterday when we checked him last night (before 2nd bute dose) there was a slight pulse to fetlock on his n/s hind and a small ammount of heat just under the hock, we lathered it in Blue ice, this morning the heat has gone, the puffiness is down and no pulse to be felt. He's has 1/2 bute this morning, plenty of blue ice and is in the small flattish paddock area on his own today - he strode across the paddock to display his discontent at not being allowed with Tess up on the Hill but hopefully he will improve without Tess (mardy hormonal mare) chasing him off every five minutes when shes that way out. wondering if he has struck the inside of his n/s during one of their fallouts - the imbalance of his feet won't have helped - no cuts or obvious bumps, farrier will get it sorted at weekend and hopefully no further feet issues will surface........ they are worry, just get one sorted and then the other starts......

 

[laceyfreckle]

Hi Lemme, Although not nice for Charlie to be sore too it is nice to hear from someone in the same boat if you know what i mean.

Ellie was funnily enough more lame today. She has been having 1 bute daily today and yesterday but although standing better and puffiness gone from the fetlock she is limping more noticeable especially round corners. The action is more noticeable too, it is almost like she is dishing it as when she puts weight on it it falls in a circular motion to the outside.

Another noticeable thing now the swelling itself has gone dowwn is that she has a bony lump on the front of the fetlock, which she hasn't got on her other one. there is no heat in the fetlock or hoof and she hasn't had any pulses in any of her feet recently.

Only other thing a bit noticeable which sort of ties in with Charlie is that although her hinds have always been a lot better then her fronts. The opposite hind to the fetlock has a more slippered look to the hoof then the other she is sore on, it could just be though that she is due a trim next week. The growth from the coronet looks good though.

 

[Lemme]

Do you think it is a bony lump, or could it just be hard swelling ? have you any blue ice or arnica gel - if so try some on morning and night - charlie had a swelling under the hock last time - definately not bone as away from it and you could palpitate it and it lasted for a few months, eventually it disappeared
when she turns does she bring both backs together and under before moving off? the reason I mentioned about the slipper effect was that I could see it in your photos and the difference is similar to Charlies, infact Ihave seen it before with Acorn when he was going through remedial after the lammi, he had no end of locomotive issues following his attacks - how long do you have between trims? Acorn was on 3 weekly then 4 and with new farrier we are now on 5 and his feet are brilliant - taken 2 years plus to get to this.
Charlies on 5 weekly trims, but this time due to the slipper and extra growth is 4 this time - and the issues are bilateral - on the opposite side to the imbalance. Often I find the bute removes the inflammation and then brings the injury site to be more visable- also the swelling is to protect the site so have experienced both improvement and a temporary worsening in some cases in movement but they came right in all cases, time dependent on how severe or what the injury was , obviously if related to the feet imbalance then once you sort that there is speedier recovery on the other.
Will be watching your thread, they do sound to be similar in so many ways.

 

[eml]

Giving pain relief in lameness is a mixed blessing, pain is natures way of making the animal rest , if she is worse after a day on pain relief I would be stopping it until you have a diagnosis...the symptoms you describe could cover all manner of things including annular ligament strain for which rest is the answer.

 

[laceyfreckle]

Do you think it is a bony lump, or could it just be hard swelling ? have you any blue ice or arnica gel - if so try some on morning and night - charlie had a swelling under the hock last time - definately not bone as away from it and you could palpitate it and it lasted for a few months, eventually it disappeared
when she turns does she bring both backs together and under before moving off? the reason I mentioned about the slipper effect was that I could see it in your photos and the difference is similar to Charlies, infact Ihave seen it before with Acorn when he was going through remedial after the lammi, he had no end of locomotive issues following his attacks - how long do you have between trims? Acorn was on 3 weekly then 4 and with new farrier we are now on 5 and his feet are brilliant - taken 2 years plus to get to this.
Charlies on 5 weekly trims, but this time due to the slipper and extra growth is 4 this time - and the issues are bilateral - on the opposite side to the imbalance. Often I find the bute removes the inflammation and then brings the injury site to be more visable- also the swelling is to protect the site so have experienced both improvement and a temporary worsening in some cases in movement but they came right in all cases, time dependent on how severe or what the injury was , obviously if related to the feet imbalance then once you sort that there is speedier recovery on the other.
Will be watching your thread, they do sound to be similar in so many ways.

It is a hard bony lump that can't be manipulated. It did have softer slight swelling around it which the bute has taken down but the hard lump feels bony. She doesn't mind it being touched though and it isn't particularly warm.

When she turns (it is more when she turns to the left, so when the bad leg is on the inside she doesn't bring both hindlegs together but sort of keeps her sore leg on the ground moves her other one forward then hesitates and then moves her sore one quickly forward but not crossing over towards the other one like she would normally do then when her foot goes down her hip drops and the fetlocks does that little bowing out thing. She is probably only about 2 or 3 tenths lame though in walk on a corner, about 1 to 2 tenths on the straight on a hard surface and is noticeable lame when going into the trot in that she jumps forward very sharply into the trot and is then about 3/10 lame for a few strides and then 2 to 3/10ths lame but wanting to go back to walk.

she is still about 7-8 weeks between trims because when i got her her feet were so bad there was very little the farrier could trim off without making her very lame (soles were red with bruising and had soft spots as well as being concave on the fronts, hinds were always ok) Her feet are growing a lot faster now though, no longer have soft spots or redness and are going concave again) Farrier has been slowly trying to correct the long toe and tall heel she has had for some time too (he was her farrier before i acquired her too.)

Giving pain relief in lameness is a mixed blessing, pain is natures way of making the animal rest , if she is worse after a day on pain relief I would be stopping it until you have a diagnosis...the symptoms you describe could cover all manner of things including annular ligament strain for which rest is the answer.

She is just on field rest at the moment and coming in for a few hours each day. I did speak to the vet and he advised to make today her last day on bute as, as you said once i know what the bute does or doesn't do then that is all the vet really wants to know untiil he has made a diagnosis. He wants her competely clear of bute before he comes out to see her anyway.

I haven't heard of annular ligament strain but will look it up. If she needs rest then that is what she will get, really i'll be happier just when i know what it is and what needs doing or what management needs changing to fix it.

Funnily enough i got her for my 5yr old daughter and 6 yr old son really but it seems my son who is 10 in a few weeks has taken a liking to her and although they share her she has become rather his special pony. Luckily he likes riding but is just as happy to spend time with her and do yard jobs. He has managed to get a place helping at the local show he was going to take her to so will be handing out rosettes instead of competing this time but to be honest he seems happy enough doing that. they have all got a few years before they will outgrow her ability or size wise so not too worried if she needs rest for now as long as long term prognosis is 'ok'

 

[Lemme]

How's she doing? we had fariier today (4weeks) brought forward a week due to the hoof growth - good news is his sbcess damage is out - he has managed to slice into the back sole in the field which has made him sore - no sign of new lgl episode so thats a relief - meanwhile the bute has sorted the other leg - started reducing and will come off it after a few days post trim - farrier said he would prob feel it a litlte for a couple of days - the crack in his front hoof will be fully out next trim and bruising is about gone - he obviously feels more balanced - he was striding round the feild effortlessly when daughter left- we have had to rethink his show season though as farrier reckons for top level showing the back hoof angle will take 6 months to come right, he would do a radical trim if we wanted him to - but we are quite happy just to keep him sound, do a few locals to keep him travelling and continue with his ridden education - rather miss this year and take him up a level later in the year or next year.

 

[laceyfreckle]

glad yours is doing better Lemme! :dance: Think your right about the adjustment of this years show season. I think that is what we will be doing too although we were only doing pony club and local level but i think she will be doing less then hoped this year but in return we it might pay off for next year.

Ellie still isn't doing too well. Now she is off bute her fetlock has swollen up again. She is still lame on it and doesn't want to trot, looks quite stiff.

Two other slightly worrying things - when asked to trot when she set off a friend noticed she was dribblin a tiny bit of wee but this only happened the once and she isn't in season so not sure what to make of that.

Other, well two really is she has a tiny bit of heat in the hock of the same leg that she has the sore fetlock and if you look at her from behind and lift her tail up there is what looks like some sort of muscle wastage at the top of her leg just on that left hand side. It wasn't there when she first came as physio would have noticed and said something. It looks almost like a hindquarter poverty line but only on the left hand leg/hind quarter.

Am hoping the vet is going to say something hopeful on tuesday as she is such a lovely little pony and so easy for the children too. (she stood there, perfectly still without anyone holding her, lead rope draped over neck in the middle of the yard while we were all looking at her and running hands down legs etc today)

 

[Lemme]

Sorry to hear she has not improved - you are right a good honest pony is a godsend - I do hope the news is postive when the vet comes tomorrow.

I found muscle wastage can occur quite quickly dependent on the trauma - is the muscle hard and more obvious on the opposite?, obviously something going on in that leg somewhere - fingers crossed this end for you all x