Is there anything out there that works as well as a stud chain? I tried a rope halter with a normal lead and it wasn't as good for control.
Stud chains...
- Thread starter CrazyDaisy
- Start date
Several years ago, there was a fellow in Wyoming who used a 2"x4" on a horse, to achieve the same results as the stud chain (i.e., "control").
The Vet had to put the horse down (because of all the cerebral hemorrhaging), and duly reported the fellow to the local constabulary. The Judge that found that fellow guilty sentenced him to attend a Buck Brannaman clinic, so that the fellow could learn how to train the horse without all that force (using the basic rope halter). The sentence worked: the fellow now knows how to work with a horse without recourse to either 2"x4"s or stud chains; he is effective with the rope halter.
I guess that one could say that the thing that is more effective than a stud chain is training of the human.
One state over, both Craig Cameron and Joe Wolter (and probably many others) can show you how to be effective with the rope halter, just like Brannaman showed that other fellow. Or, you can probably find local trainers that can also train you how to be effective.
Best regards,
Harry
Yeah I understand that they can be used badly. He is a new horse and they said to make sure to use it. I don't like it. At same time he is a hot horse (arab stallion and young.) I know that many arab people use these and I haven't see a horse harmed yet. I use the rope halters on both my mares an I think he will get use to it if I keep it up and he gets more use to me. 
I guess my question is a rope halter enough to hold him. Maybe a traditional halter would be stronger? I don't want the thing to snap and him go running away. I would never use a 2 by 4 on any animal I would never even dream about doing such a thing.
I guess my question is a rope halter enough to hold him. Maybe a traditional halter would be stronger? I don't want the thing to snap and him go running away. I would never use a 2 by 4 on any animal I would never even dream about doing such a thing.This is conventional wisdom, which dictates the use of devices to compulse behavior. In other words, "they" also do not know how to work with a(ny) horse without devices for "control".CrazyDaisy said:
That's irrelavent to a person that knows how (has been trained) to influence the behavior of a horse. It does not matter what breed, sex, age, size, feed, nor phases of the Moon; once you understand how to train a horse to be responsive, you can get the horse responsive. Any horse.
This is what Cameron, Cox, Parelli, Brannaman, et al can show you how to do. But understand, that it is you that must learn the skill of training the horse to be responsive. The folks that are counselling you haven't gotten there, and that's why they counsel the use of devices to compulse behavior.
Only IF...he becomes trained to your effective use of it.I use the rope halters on both my mares an I think he will get use to it if I keep it up and he gets more use to me.
There is not a halter made that will hold a horse that really wants to get away. They may get hurt trying, but if not, and if they try hard enough, they will break loose of all typical halters.
The halter should be used only for training; not for restraining. In other words, if you train the horse to yield to pressure (of the halter and lead rope), the horse will be under "control". Again, those trainers mentioned above can show you how to do this.
If he does, he will run to the nearest familiar area, such as his favorite hay pile, or his padock/stall.
Horses generally run to the familiar (or that which they consider safe) when they get loose. So if you are in a place that he is familiar with, you need not be worried, he will return to what he believes is safe. And before you take him to an unfamiliar place, he should be taught to yield softly to the lead rope.
In addition, please realize that every time a horse leaves you, it is an opportunity to teach the horse to come back to you. I make a habit of allowing (actually requiring) horses to leave me, so that I can train them to come back. Pretty soon, they just stay with me. (If it never leaves me, it cannot learn this lesson.)
Best regards,
Harry
Stud chains were used on my horse for the first three years of his life. ONe over the nose, one under. One day, he got away from his two handlers (it took two of them to lead him from stall to turn out) and he stepped on one of the leads and broke his nose. He still has a bump to show for it.
Not only are they hideous control devices, they actually taught my boy to only pay attention to heavy handedness. It took me forever to sensitize him to ANYTHING (bridle, bit, regularly attached lead) because all he knew was pain that anything less was easily ignored.
I know you're looking for an alternative to stud chains, but I wanted to add this comment for people who are reading this thread and using stud chains.
Not only are they hideous control devices, they actually taught my boy to only pay attention to heavy handedness. It took me forever to sensitize him to ANYTHING (bridle, bit, regularly attached lead) because all he knew was pain that anything less was easily ignored.
I know you're looking for an alternative to stud chains, but I wanted to add this comment for people who are reading this thread and using stud chains.
It's a lead rope that ends in about eight to ten inches of chain just before the snap. You thread the chain through the near side halter ring, go across the horse's nose with the chain, and clip to the offside ring. Or you can go under the horse's chin with the chain - not sure if this is kinder or not. Anyway, when the handler puts pressure on the lead rope, the chain exerts pressure on the horse's nose or chin.
I see it used a lot, and it makes my flesh crawl, especially as I often see people giving the lead rope a good jerk.
And that was before I read Tootsie's story about Bonfire breaking his nose!
In my experience, every time I've seen one used there was a better solution, if the person would only have stopped and thought about it.
I see it used a lot, and it makes my flesh crawl, especially as I often see people giving the lead rope a good jerk.
And that was before I read Tootsie's story about Bonfire breaking his nose! In my experience, every time I've seen one used there was a better solution, if the person would only have stopped and thought about it.
Well the fact the horse broke his nose is enough. I am throwing it out burning it or something of the like. I will just try him with the rope halter. You said the chain made your horse unresponsive to a point? My guy has had one on all his life so do you think this will make it worse retraining him?
I understand that stud chains can be abusive in the wrong hands, but sometimes, they can be very effective, and safe.
In the American Quarter Horse Association (AQHA) showmanship classes (in hand) are very popular. And every horse has a chain run through the near side halter ring, under the chin, through the off side halter ring and up to the round ring on the off side. Almost every one of these horses have been trained to work off of the handler's shoulder, that is, stop when teh shoulder stops, back up when the handler faces the horse and walks into it, and pivot when a handler walks toward the side of their face. Granted, there are some people outh there who use these chains cruelly, but the majority of the time, this piece of equiptment offers a more subtle form of control.
Now, I use a regular flat haltre on my horse at home, but when I go to a show, the chain goes under the chin as an extra measure of control, and he sees the chain as a sign of athourity (sp?).
There is another horse at the place I board at that will run all over people without a chain, but the minute that chain goes on....Boom!...toatally different horse, a perfect gentleman, no yanking or being dragged.
So, my point is, chains can be used correctly, however, they have been used abusivley, but with care and finesse, sometimes they are just what the doctor ordered.
In the American Quarter Horse Association (AQHA) showmanship classes (in hand) are very popular. And every horse has a chain run through the near side halter ring, under the chin, through the off side halter ring and up to the round ring on the off side. Almost every one of these horses have been trained to work off of the handler's shoulder, that is, stop when teh shoulder stops, back up when the handler faces the horse and walks into it, and pivot when a handler walks toward the side of their face. Granted, there are some people outh there who use these chains cruelly, but the majority of the time, this piece of equiptment offers a more subtle form of control.
Now, I use a regular flat haltre on my horse at home, but when I go to a show, the chain goes under the chin as an extra measure of control, and he sees the chain as a sign of athourity (sp?).
There is another horse at the place I board at that will run all over people without a chain, but the minute that chain goes on....Boom!...toatally different horse, a perfect gentleman, no yanking or being dragged.
So, my point is, chains can be used correctly, however, they have been used abusivley, but with care and finesse, sometimes they are just what the doctor ordered.
Last edited:
Daisy,
If at all possible, I would recommend renting or buying the John Lyons videos. Get the original series, in the orangy-red covers. They are not high-tech or fancy, but the info you will learn will change the way you relate to horse for EVER! Also make sure to get the trailer-loading video too. These 6 videos will show you, step by step, how to get your horse to tune into you, to the point that you will not need to use any force at all when leading him. I make all of my students and clients watch these old videos, because they are so helpful for learning all the important basics about handling horses, even difficult ones. You will soon have your horse following you all over the place with nothing on his head at all..... throw that stud chain away!!!!
If at all possible, I would recommend renting or buying the John Lyons videos. Get the original series, in the orangy-red covers. They are not high-tech or fancy, but the info you will learn will change the way you relate to horse for EVER! Also make sure to get the trailer-loading video too. These 6 videos will show you, step by step, how to get your horse to tune into you, to the point that you will not need to use any force at all when leading him. I make all of my students and clients watch these old videos, because they are so helpful for learning all the important basics about handling horses, even difficult ones. You will soon have your horse following you all over the place with nothing on his head at all..... throw that stud chain away!!!!
Not "worse"; but he probably will require more time to train him to yield softly, for the simple reason that all he knows from the human (i.e., all that the human has offered him) is pain on the face to compulse obedience. (This is why people resort to stud chains and 2"x4"s: they do not want to, or do not know how to invest the time, so they use a "force multiplier".)
Training him to softly yield requires that someone now reset his expectations that the human will no longer compulse obedience, but will ask for it softly (i.e., offer him softness while asking).
All this means that you have to overcome his expectations (based upon his prior experience with humans) that the human is going to use pain on him; and it is the overcoming of that expectation, and replacing it with a new expectation (of softness) that takes time; but most of all it requires consistency and persistence on the part of the human, and the resolution to never again resort to a "force multiplier".
aeron's recommendation regarding Lyons' first symposium tape set is on the mark; these tapes are excellent and are actually a little better than his second symposium tape set. The tape set continues to be available from some of the equine catalog houses, although Lyons no longer offers it on his web site. But if you cannot find the set, there are alternatives available from other world-class trainers.
Best regards,
Harry
Last edited:
Lindsey_S said:
Thank you, Lindsey_S. When I read this thread, I started to panic inwardly, because I always use a stud chain, it's what I learned, and I started to wonder if maybe I was doing something wrong. I was taught this way (chain through one loop of the halter, under the chin and clipped to the other side) because this allows for two points of contact on the halter and thus easier to control the horse.
However, all the horses I work with know how to lead. They stay by my side and work off my shoulder. The chain is always slack unless I choose otherwise, in which case it's a quick jerk (usually if the horse is trying to bite me).
I've also heard of horses have their noses broken by having a chain over their nose, and I've seen horses with the chain in their mouth like a bit, but like anything, it is misused. That does not however make it a bad thing.
Why not put a muzzle on as well in case they *might* bite?
Chains are not kind to a horse at all. If you don't ever use it, why bother to put it on? Train your horse to lead properly and you won't ever need one.
Chains are not kind to a horse at all. If you don't ever use it, why bother to put it on? Train your horse to lead properly and you won't ever need one.
Chablis said:Why not put a muzzle on as well in case they *might* bite?
Chains are not kind to a horse at all. If you don't ever use it, why bother to put it on? Train your horse to lead properly and you won't ever need one.
They do lead properly. It's not that I don't trust the horse, it's more like I don't trust the little ring in the center of the halter.
Those horses "respect" the chain, not their handler. I personally would have a problem with that.
Stud chains for showmanship classes are redundant, IMO. In those classes you show off how obedient and well trained your horse is, yet you must have a chain over his nose in efforts to control him???... Maybe Im the only one, but I dont get it and it makes no sense to me.
Keket, what don't you trust about the ring? Has it fallen off one of your halters? (serious question)
Stud chains for showmanship classes are redundant, IMO. In those classes you show off how obedient and well trained your horse is, yet you must have a chain over his nose in efforts to control him???... Maybe Im the only one, but I dont get it and it makes no sense to me.
Keket, what don't you trust about the ring? Has it fallen off one of your halters? (serious question)
Tootsie4U said:
RI has had them break before. I can honestly say that I don't know the circumstances behind it, but I know she's had them break. All the horses I work with respect me, not the chain. I can lead them just fine from the ring, and I usually do. But they're show horses, and they have to be used to the chain under their chin.
Tootsie4U said:
No, I can say it doesn't make any sense to me either. I look at some breed classes and shake my head. You're not allowed to hold the chain in a showmanship class, so people try to weave the chain through as much of the halter as possible in order to take up the slack so they can control their horse right under the chin, when they should able to have at least 6" of chain loose and lots of slack in the lead. I can walk toward my horse's shoulder and have him move away from me without any pressure on the lead at all. I can cluck my tongue and have my horse pick up a jog at my pace without pulling on his head at all.
Last edited:
newrider.com