The local councils are puppets on strings!

[Dark Storm]

The reason the councils are rationing the grit is the government is pulling their strings, and not giving them the finance to buy enough grit! They are lying to us, by saying there is a shortage, there is plenty, its just not being sold..

It's not been safe to get to work, and I couldn't ride out even if the snow hadn't arrived, the roads would still have been ice rinks

 

[fairlady]

I feel a bit the same as you.

This Weather was well forecast for this Winter, WHAT do they spend
our money on, I could have a guess but it would not be PC to
say what I think.

They, the Councils and the Government are putting peoples lives at risk.

Perhaps they ought to be using some of the money somebody rakes
in from PARKING FINES, I have done more than my fair share of paying
in for those as parking where I live is a bloody NIGHTMARE........

Funny how we always seem to manage to see the Parking Wardens up here, as I have done TODAY, but no bin clearances or Gritting Lorries

 

[lynnemh]

i think we are all being lied to one way or another. called up the highways dept. on thursday to see if the country roads on my route were being cleared, and was told that the whole county is only gritting A roads, as central government is now in charge of and allocating grit. but for the last few nights on the news, they are listing what the various counties are gritting, and some are doing A roads, some are doing A roads and pavements, some are doing A roads and some B roads so that every village has a route in and out. so who to believe. i know that this particular county has always had a bad record for gritting roads, if we can make it to the county line, the bordering counties are always gritted. we are a low priority area apparently, and that is probably the only consistant and truthful comment i have heard from anyone on the subject.

 

[devonlass]

Councils are very quick to plead poverty,and to blame the government,especially when it comes to council tax increases I find

The truth is that local councils have been in charge of their own finance for many years (in England anyway,I am not so sure about Scotland??).They are of course subsidised by central government,but ultimately their overspending and bad money management are entirely down to themselves,they just like to pass the buck and blame the government.

No government is perfect,but I do believe the current one is better than many,and is not toally to blame for local council's shortcomings,and lack of foresight.In the case of my local council they openly admitted that despite being caught out last year,they still did not have the sense this year to ensure they had a reasonable supply of grit/salt,and are of course now blaming everyone else for their lack of planning

 

[Dark Storm]

I found out recently that the parking fines are going to help charities... shouldn't they be put back into road maintenance.. i.e. keeping roads clear in winter and repairing our forever crumbling road network?

 

[devonlass]

I found out recently that the parking fines are going to help charities... shouldn't they be put back into road maintenance.. i.e. keeping roads clear in winter and repairing our forever crumbling road network?

There's an awful lot that 'ought' to be going into the highway's if you ask me,but never does it seems.

Like I said most councils couldn't organise a child's piggy bank,let alone a whole counties finance,they really do annoy me with their terrible money management skills,and then have the cheek to blame everyone else but themselves

 

[Sparky Lily]

Ooh, there's a lot of accusations going on without much in the way of evidence!

I used to be a member of both a district and a county council. There never is enough money to do everything, so judgements have to be made and priorities set. Sometimes these turn out to be wrong; sometimes circumstances change; sometimes a bit of both. Not so long ago, some councils were being criticised for "wasting money" by buying in grit and salt "early", and then the winter was mild and wet!

I'm not saying that mistakes haven't been made. However, expectations have not always been realistic either. A period of bad weather will nearly always catch us out, as it's hard to predict with certainty, and LAs don't have the funding to meet every contingency. I can remember the bad winters of the early 80s and 60s. It's not so very different now, at least as far as treating the roads goes.

The main difference I've seen is that householders (myself included) are now more reluctant to clear outside their homes because of the legal implications. A radio 4 item recently compared this with Germany, where it appears householders can be penalised for not clearing the snow from their housefrontages. i.e. in Germany, you can be sued if someone slips because you have not cleared the snow and ice, whereas in England you can be sued if someone slips because you have.

 

[Mimi + Me]

Perhaps they ought to be using some of the money somebody rakes
in from PARKING FINES, I have done more than my fair share of paying
in for those as parking where I live is a bloody NIGHTMARE........

Funny how we always seem to manage to see the Parking Wardens up here, as I have done TODAY, but no bin clearances or Gritting Lorries

That, fairlady, is an excellent point. I remember hearing ages ago that they were only used to allocate the vast income they get from parking fines, by spending it back on the roads. If they used some of the millions of £££ to grit the roads, there wouldn't be an ungritted road in England

 

[devonlass]

Ooh, there's a lot of accusations going on without much in the way of evidence!

I used to be a member of both a district and a county council. There never is enough money to do everything, so judgements have to be made and priorities set. Sometimes these turn out to be wrong; sometimes circumstances change; sometimes a bit of both. Not so long ago, some councils were being criticised for "wasting money" by buying in grit and salt "early", and then the winter was mild and wet!

I'm not saying that mistakes haven't been made. However, expectations have not always been realistic either. A period of bad weather will nearly always catch us out, as it's hard to predict with certainty, and LAs don't have the funding to meet every contingency. I can remember the bad winters of the early 80s and 60s. It's not so very different now, at least as far as treating the roads goes.

I agree with you in a sense,and yes it would be foolish to buy in and store huge quantities when there is a high probablility of it not being needed.However to have only the bare minimum when the last couple of winters have shown a high chance of increasing cold snaps,is a little foolhardy and badly planned.
You are right that bad weather does at times 'catch us out' but actually this is not a one off,the last couple of winters have shown a similar pattern,and then also they were woefully unprepared,how many cold weathers do we need to have before they stop calling it 'one offs' as an excuse for not being prepared??
I don't say as has been suggested in the media that as a country we should cope as other countries do,as that would be a load of extra expense for not a lot of benefit,we really don't need to buy every council 20 snow ploughs etc,you are quite right planning for every contingency would be a complete waste of money.However I don't think it's un-reasonable to ask that councils grit roads as required and ensure they have the means to do so!!

After all it's not a new concept,many years ago roads AND footpaths were gritted,and you would never find empty grit boxes as you do so often now!! Ironically that was probably when the government DID have most of the control over council spending..............................

TBH it's not even just the fact they are so hopeless that bothers me,it's the fact they try and blame everyone else for their incompetence,central government being their most favoured scape goat

 

[lynnemh]

it is a fact that a few years back the local papers ran an article about our council spending over 600 pounds on a meal and meeting which took place at a nice hotel, and the only thing they discussed/ argued over, during the entire evening, was what sort of coffee to have for thier ordinary meetings! it was not denied, and there was quite a stink about it!

also, i know if they dont have enough grit, they cant use it, but, that doesnt excuse the fact that they have a snow plough, and could get thier act together somewhat by just ploughing the roads so that there is only a few inches on it rather than 12. and am i correct in that they salt all of the motorway lanes? i know they are no longer going to grit the hard shoulder, but surely they could save even more by shutting down the fast lane- then maybe the rest of us could get out of our houses.

 

[PoweredByHorses]

that sounds just like the council,its that overused f word [no,not that one its funding],if are a service user of theirs for needed adaptions,it's the most common word will hear from them,as in "sorry there isnt enough funding for it,but there is for the leather chairs and awesome equipment in our managers offices",another trick of theirs is to promise things and go back on it later.

if they did grit everything they should do,the most believable cause would not be the council had chosen to do it,but a cat had got through the window whilst the managers were on their toilets,and walked across the keyboard to mess up the funding.

 

[Niv2]

The thing is that councils have all been hoodwinked by the idea that "climate change" (Global warming) means that our weather is going to get progressively warmer and that we are not meant to have cold weather in winter....the Met Office backs this view officially and has, I believe, got the long term forecasts for the last 3 (inc this one) wrong (they have also got the summer ones wrong as well, I understand!). Hence there seems to have been little urgency in stockpiling salt because the "experts" told everyone that it was going to be a mild winter based on predictions of "global warming".

 

[lynnemh]

definately- it is in the best interests of the scientists who are telling us of global warming , to state that it is urgent and a reality, because basically if they dont they dont get further government funding , and thier jobs are then on the line; they have a vested interest because thier jobs depend on it. ditto the government; if they can convince us to sort out our rubbish, etc. the whole global warming thing; we will not focus so closely on the major cockups that the gov. have managed to do , over the past 30 odd years ( basically, i am not impressd with any party!) they ( scientists and poli's) all want to keep thier jobs and thier perks. as for salt and grit- i do not quite understand why lack of grit prevents them taking the worst of the snow off roads- we had another 3" last night- on top of the 12" last tuesday- still havent seen a snow plough- the only thing i am sure of is that by saving on upkeep of roads and clearance of same- they can keep on supporting thier saleries and perks. our county has one of the worst records of gritting , and also of pothole filling- and strangley, it is one of the wealthiest counties, so say, in the country!

 

[Joyscarer]

My councils storage was packed to capacity. The problem was that there wasn't any more places to put the stuff so they couldn't get any more.

 

[Yann]

Ooh, there's a lot of accusations going on without much in the way of evidence!

There certainly are! I used to work on a County Council maintenance contract and part of my job included rostering and organising drivers and ancillary labour for winter maintenance. We haven't had a winter like this, with such sustained freezing temperatures and snowfall for decades. It's no surprise at all to me that stockpiles of salt have run down or that the government has stepped in to coordinate things centrally.

 

[Niv2]

Well, all I know is that my OH tried to get to work today....we live in the Chilterns and have to use country roads to get out of our village.....the council appear not to have salted the roads round here that are used as "through" routes and this resulted in cars sliding around and the inevitable accidents.....the area was virtually gridlocked as a result...as a result after trying unsuccessfully for about an hour to get 5 miles (total trip 20 miles) OH gave up and is now working from home...

The lack of salt being laid at the moment is causing mayhem..

 

[lynnemh]

but the problems with salt & grit and /or its storage, doesnt explian why they cant at least plow some of the top layer of snow off. we now have another 3" on top of 12" that fell last tuesday. i have fallen 3 times on what should be pavement, once face first across the main road. luckily it was yesterday- sunday, so nothing there to run me over. today i trekked 3 miles down main road to feed animals for someone who cant get to them; the road was slush and ice, the verge was about 2" high with snow in places and i was covered in freezing slushy spray by traffic. i have not seen my horses since last tuesday, and i am sure my friend is totally fed up with having to do them. the thing is we always get freezing temperatures in winter, so why the big surprize? my uncle used to be the foreman in charge of north wiltshires roads, and they were always out half the night throughout winter, in this county, we all say that if we can get to the county line, we will be ok- that goes for potholes as well as icy road conditions.. i am sorry for the bad humour, but truly, i am so fed up and worried now. when this first began last week, this town was cheerful. today, you walk through the town, and everyone is miserable- it is beyond excuses,or even reasons. strangely- if you phoned the highways at the weekend you got an answermachine message; today, you get to speak to a human, same as last week thru to friday; now to me, that says they arent even bothering at the weekend. they are advising everyone to not venture out unless on an "A" road, but how the heck are we supposed to get to the "A" road, is what i want to know. when i pointed out ( in a joking, nice way) that it is probably cheaper to clear the roads than pay for the emergency services to mop up after the accident, the reply was, thats covered by different funding. oh, so thats ok, then! sorry, i will try to be nicer, but it is really getting to be a worry.