I know many are, and I suppose I can understand it as it would be very easy to abuse, however, I would definitely prefer it to dying slowly, painfully and without dignity.
I know many are, and I suppose I can understand it as it would be very easy to abuse, however, I would definitely prefer it to dying slowly, painfully and without dignity.
How do you think fish are killed in that situation? They are whacked over the head (when I used to fish I used a heavy, short stick)- I did it at the side of the river too....Def didn't kiss it before hand
J
jaydevon
Guest
did i read that right? you think my comment was "silly"?
how do us as humans know the degree of any animals pain? we can specualte with a horse/cat/dog because of their reactions after the event, but how do we know that the death a fish feels be it a bop to the head or left our of water, how do we actually know its not totally aware that its dying, and feeling the suffering ever second of its death?? WE DONT!
nobody (i my be wrong) has put a fox through a serious of tests to determin its intelligance, for example, if a fox was a pet and was beaten like a domestic dog would it remember it, in the way a dog would??
Y
Yann
Guest
If the fox was simply flushed out and shot, then yes it would, and I have no problem at all with this being done for pest control purposes either even if we can't eat them. But hunting with hounds, where an animal is terrorised purely for fun and which doesn't actually have anything to do with pest control is not the same thing at all.
Since they are so closely related to the domestic dog there's no reason to think they wouldn't.
J
jaydevon
Guest
Yann... i agree, but the fox has never really had a huge amount of research carried out on it, i had a google but couldnt find anything worth while, people use dto say fish didnt really have a memory, but its been proven they do, so if something has a memory it has to have intelligence, there fore must be able to know pain,.
so which ever animal/mammal/fish or bird we want to think about, they all to a degree feel the pain us humans put on them.
so which ever animal/mammal/fish or bird we want to think about, they all to a degree feel the pain us humans put on them.
Warning this is long!!!!
Iam a vege of 15 years,i only eat cheese which is suitable for vegetarians, and do not use products tested on or have animal ingredients, and do not buy leather. My next step is to go Vegan.
It is my choice to be a vegetarian, and i do not push this onto others, if people ask me why iam vege i tell them in detail the reasons why. People who eat meat can also make the choice of the meat/products they buy with the welfare standards available.
Fox hunting is cruel, mass farm production is cruel, there is alot of other cruel practises in the world in my opinion, and we all have different veiws on if something is cruel or not.
Fair dos! I do hate "fake" veggies.....
Likewise, I am not trying to force my pro-hunting views on anyone, or forcing anyone to go hunting- I'm just airing my views as is normal on a public board.
I disagree with your view that fox hunting is cruel but such is life!
That is awful......and that is a bad example too. My hunt is lovely, everyone is polite and we close all the gates and keep away from anywhere with horses or llivestock when it is possible to do so. I am sorry to hear about your horrible experience. That hunt are a bad representation.
I would just like to add that this has been a fantastic debate and to thank everyone who has contributed to it. It proves that we can discuss controversial topics on NR without it turning into a mass of abuse. I haven't got anything new to add to the discussion - I think that you all know what my views are and I am about to log off until Monday.
However I would love to see an increase in proper discussions in NR in the future. It is a shame that the more interesting threads often get closed due to petty arguements. If we can create a 700 plus thread without any abuse, perhaps we can start to do this more often on the smaller threads?
However I would love to see an increase in proper discussions in NR in the future. It is a shame that the more interesting threads often get closed due to petty arguements. If we can create a 700 plus thread without any abuse, perhaps we can start to do this more often on the smaller threads?
Hear Hear!
I may not agree with what you say, but I'd fight to the death for your right to say it!
Im veggie and have 'extreme views' although I prefer to call them 'better morals'
I don't eat cheese as the cheese industry is far worse in terms of suffering than the meat industry and I don't buy leather products, plenty of synthetic alternatives.
I think fox hunting is a sick sport. Any activity that causes an animal to suffer whether its for pest control or a humans satifaction is wrong.
I don't believe any animal should die for us but I do not have a problem with people that shoot an animal without causing it stress beforehand. I would never condone it but see that the animal doesn't suffer if the marksman is skilled enough to get the shot right the first time, which sadly doesn't always happen.
I don't understand how some people think hunting isn't cruel? You wouldn't chase your pet dog or horse for miles upon miles scaring it ****less without thinking it cruel so why is a fox any different?
We don't need hunts anymore to conserve the countryside, thats what the EU Habitats directive and Level Entry schemes (although this one is debatable as to how effective and worthwhile it is for farmers), to name a couple, are for
Leave the conservationists to preserve our Great British countryside
I
india
Guest
How refreshing to finaly have a civilised discussion on this subject. Once again, hats of to everyone who's contributed!!!!
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But wait! I'm still waiting for an answer from country_bumpkin as to whether the birds-of-prey that the hunts now use are allowed to eat the foxes they kill.
Yep me too, very, very interesting. As i`ve mentioned before i am an avid hunter,BUT, was good to hear people who are against the sport as i will hold my hands up and admit, i have in the past brandished them some rather rude words (apologies
), some good points have been raised.Lets have another one soon
So the people who thing fox hunting is sick, what to you think about deer hunting? Over here it's that time of season when I am filling out hundreds upon hundreds of hunting permits so people can hunt in the park I work at. These hunters will do anything to kill a buck. And most of the time its a slow death for the deer because its bow hunting and not shotgun! And then they drag or carry the deer through the woods back to their trucks and just throw them in the back. During this season I will see hundreds of deer hanging from trees to drain the blood from the bodies. I have seen deer with no heads because someone just wanted the antlers, I have seen deer skinned for their furs.
And it doesn't bother me at all.
Would that bother you as much as fox hunting?
And it doesn't bother me at all.
Would that bother you as much as fox hunting?
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vimto92
Guest
Whoops I thought I had answered, but I think I got interrupted with some work...
The eagle is allowed a little taste of the fox, then it gets saved for later! If he was allowed to eat his fill he wouldn't want to fly on other quarry during the day. Incidentally although he catches foxes with his talons, the falconer administers the final coup de grace with a knife.
It is an impressive sight, but I'm not convinced it is as quick a death as hounds were. Talons in the eyes or raked down your back anyone??
The eagle is allowed a little taste of the fox, then it gets saved for later! If he was allowed to eat his fill he wouldn't want to fly on other quarry during the day. Incidentally although he catches foxes with his talons, the falconer administers the final coup de grace with a knife.
It is an impressive sight, but I'm not convinced it is as quick a death as hounds were. Talons in the eyes or raked down your back anyone??
I
india
Guest
I should imagine that would bother most people who have an interest in animal welfare.
To read someone admit it doesn't bother them that an animal dies a slow painful death - which is sometimes just for the sake of their antlers or skin, is actually quite disturbing.
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Yes for me too,
I think if you have a look through this very long thread again, you will see we have covered all sorts of hunting and other practises where an animal is killed, and peoples opinions on the different types.
And it feels to me this debate is now coming to an end, as it seems we are agreeing to disagree after reading each others veiws on such things.
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