I don't think this thread is going round in circles at all. I have just been very interested in reading the posts from Francis Burton who has added a thoughtful and informative dimension to this debate.
V
vimto92
Guest
Agreed, I'm finding it interesting also.
Its annoying me the fact people keep stating it is going round in circles, that these threads supposedly aren't allowed when actually they are and the fact they think it will be closed very shortly. To be quite honest with you, I'm reading to find out peoples views on fox hunting not whether you think or want the thread to be closed - it is actually started to get on my wick!
I
india
Guest
I've already asked this question but got no replies, so I'll ask it again.
If it's only the weak and old that are singled out, why are healthy foxes that have escaped and gone to ground, dug out by the hunt?
Plus, how many ill, weak or old foxes are actually caught in the cub hunting season compared to healthy young ones?
Also, can I ask again why the tails (bush) and feet are cut of a dead fox?
Not wanting to offend anyone
, i am not suggesting that this thread is `off limits`, as i said it has been very informative and an interesting discussion as i am fully supportive of hunting, yet it has been very interesting to hear the points of fellow riders who oppose hunting- i just feel that `what other ground can be covered`- apologies for `getting on your wick`, sorry it came across that way
J
jaydevon
Guest
if you have nothing constructive to add then dont post pointless comments, such as above. it is these comments that will get it locked, not ther overall conversation going on, some of us, are actully gaining form it, be it pro hunt or anti.
J
jaydevon
Guest
tails and feet are like rabbits, a sign of good luck (not sure how)
in all honesty i dont personally belive that the weak are singled out, id have to agree/say the hounds pick up the sent they chase.
I
india
Guest
You don't need to be a vegetarian to have compassion for animals who suffer in the name of sport or entertainment.
Am I right in thinking what your trying to say is that if you did stand and watch a fox being ripped to bits, it would become a reality, but while you can turn a blind eye to what happens, you can carry on enjoying hunting without feeling any guilt?
V
vimto92
Guest
Not wanting to offend anyone
No offence taken, and I can see your point. Sorry if I sounded snappy, lol.
India, good thought provoking questions!
I
india
Guest
V
vimto92
Guest
Isn't this also classed as a pointless comment then, along with mine now?
I am gaining from this thread, my opinion stays the same as before, if not stronger (!), but I can see a wide range of arguments for both for and against.
you cant control what scent the hounds pick up (in the past anyway) but a strong healthy fox gets away one that is hindered in someway does not.
if or when the healthy ones are dug outm, how many are caught? there is no figures on this but from personal experience not many, in all honesty i have only ever seen one been caught in this way, and turned out someone had previously shot that anyway.
cant comment on cub hunting, i have never been involved/seen that side.
lastly tradition, the brush was left over farm gates so the farmer knew the fox had been caught (expecially if it had been attacking livestock)
personally i love a nice brush either on the fox or not, why discard something when it can be kept, when the animal is dead anyway.
its not as if the fox is killed specifically for the "trophy" so it shouldnt be referred to or thought of as one
the feet or pads, my dad mentioned briefly blooding which involved smearing blood onto the face of a new follower at their first kill using these (i think anyway, thats the gist of it that i got) its not common now or hasnt been in the past few decades so it has just carried on without a definite meaning i suppose.
Last edited:
Yes, and I do appreciate you explaining how you really feel - even though I am somewhat appalled to hear you aren't too bothered about bullfighting.
J
jaydevon
Guest
You don't need to be a vegetarian to have compassion for animals who suffer in the name of sport or entertainment.
Am I right in thinking what your trying to say is that if you did stand and watch a fox being ripped to bits, it would become a reality, but while you can turn a blind eye to what happens, you can carry on enjoying hunting without feeling any guilt?
no, what im tryin gto say is im fully aware of what happens but i look away, its not guilt, its a case of not wanting to see the kill, as a kid we had ferrets, and used to go rabbit lamping, i had no problems puttin gthe ferrets down, or driving for the lamping, but i couldnt watch an animal die, ive always been funny about animals, my mum used to breed ducks, have chickens even cows, but i could never eat the home grown stuff, not even a egg, it was just to ...........personal, i dont know the fox, if it had been a fox that came into my field then to be honest, id proberley cry at its death
V
vimto92
Guest
The head (mask), feet (pads) and tail (brush) used to be, and sometimes in the minority, still are, cut off and awared as "trophies".
loopylozza is right also, sometimes newcomers witnessing their first kill will have blood of the fox smeared on their cheeks - I remember a newspaper of Prince William/Harry having it done actually.
J
jaydevon
Guest
Yes, and I do appreciate you explaining how you really feel - even though I am somewhat appalled to hear you aren't too bothered about bullfighting.
not a case of not being bothereed, i think its awful, but to be honest is it really any worse than the straps they use to make a rodeo horse buck? at least the bull gets to die.
J
jaydevon
Guest
it does happen, i have seen people who have had this done, but i wasnt there at the time if that makes sense. it was a decade ago though
Ok, so we need to know how many (what proportion) of those foxes shot are killed cleanly and how many run off to die painfully. The evidence I have seen summarized in the After The Hunt report is that over 90% of foxes are killed by the first shot, and that an estimated 9% and 3% of foxes that are shot at are wounded with shotguns and rifles respectively each year (suggesting that rifles are preferable to shotguns because they are more reliable).
Are rogue foxes more surely targetted by shooting than hunting with hounds? I would have thought so.
Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by killing "for the hell of it". The behaviour you describe, shocking as it is, can still be explained by the fox's natural instinct. If it hadn't been attacked by the cockerel, who's to say the fox wouldn't have removed and eaten a bird? And can we be sure it wouldn't have returned to collect some of its kill at a later time/date?
Last edited:
In that case, I misunderstood what you wrote and I'm sorry.
Rodeo is a whole other debate... I'm not keen on what goes on there either, but in the case of bucking horses I think their discomfort really is short-lived as a rule and the rest of the time they live quite decent lives, allegedly. That doesn't mean I condone it - but bullfighting is much, much worse in my opinion.
This is a very informative thread, so,those with knowledge of the hounds, how has the ban affected the young hounds training ? As they can no longer kill the young litters and get their first taste of fox blood, has it affected their enthausiam in following the scent in the season when mature and cannier foxes are hunted ?
What happens to the hounds at the end of their working life, is this around the age of 6 years or later ?
What happens to the hounds at the end of their working life, is this around the age of 6 years or later ?
newrider.com