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india
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So, forget raging inflation, forget higher taxes, forget rising unemployment, lets not worry about education going to pot. who cares that people now go to hospital to get ill. Hospitals that have no money. people having their houses repossed. As long as the fox lives a happy live under labour we shall all be happy. Hmm, let me think about that one
While you’re thinking, I’ll have a quick ponder of what the Conservatives have achieved in the past.....yep, closure of pits resulting in the loss of 20,000 jobs and a national miners strike, introduction of the poll tax and hey, who can forget their excellent social housing rules.
Then let’s have a think about a few things we could look forward to under a new conservative government...things like the abortion limit being cut to 22 weeks, even less social housing, little or no increase in tax credits resulting in more poverty.
Oh, and let’s not forget the repeal of the hunting ban...but of course, the hunt supporters would be more concerned about education and the rising unemployment to worry about such a trivial matter.
So all in all I don't think there’s much to choose between either party, except the fact that labour will never overturn the hunting act.....and for me, that makes them hands down winners.
Hmm, they would end up on the M5 motorway
HAHA!! That made me chuckle...
BUT(!) Then, I suppose it would be the lorry drivers' fault for hitting your horse...how dare he be driving down the road by your horse's field in case it might happen to escape?!
As for murder of common pests - rats and rabbits are killed before they can overrun us, pigeons are killed, lobsters (not pests, before anyone corrects me) are boiled alive for human consumption - we are natural beings, we do all of these things for survival and to protect our species. But wait, don't think you can jump down my throat just yet: If a million "cute little bunnies" were "saved" from the bullet, we'd either have to poison them (I'm sure that was mentioned as being dangerous to lots of other animals in an earlier post), or we could expect next to all of our crops to be demolished by their gnawing little teeth. Let's poison the foxes? That's equal to the discomfort suffered through hours of running, surely? I'm shocked that noone has suggested that you "shoot" or "rehabilitate" foxes - if anyone wants to spend their time culling foxes with a shot gun, then feel free, step right up, and spend hours on your own with a gun (one that the govt hasn't taken away from you yet). Otherwise, it might be time for the antis to pack away their little soap boxes and leave it to the people who actually know what they're doing.
Speaking along similar lines to an earlier point: foxes and chickens, rabbits, pets - are you going to handcuff every "cute, little" fox for each of the chickens it has killed and left, or your neighbour's rabbit who ate your tomatoes on your nice, suburban allotment?
Fabulous point about "murder" previously - if foxes were humans, then yes, perhaps the hunt are murderers - but seeing that they're common pests, I think it's somewhat different; providing a service to the community in fact.
I really cannot see the point in 'debating' the subject any further - hunts carry on, people enjoy themselves, it keeps communities together, it shows that we can and will fight back against the nanny state which also tried to take away our guns and various other hobbies...
Let's leave the townies to believe that their meat comes from Tesco, that bread is grown in the plastic bag, and that hunting won't happen if they whinge about it enough - we know just how wrong they are.
While you’re thinking, I’ll have a quick ponder of what the Conservatives have achieved in the past.....yep, closure of pits resulting in the loss of 20,000 jobs and a national miners strike, introduction of the poll tax and hey, who can forget their excellent social housing rules.
Then let’s have a think about a few things we could look forward to under a new conservative government...things like the abortion limit being cut to 22 weeks, even less social housing, little or no increase in tax credits resulting in more poverty.
Oh, and let’s not forget the repeal of the hunting ban...but of course, the hunt supporters would be more concerned about education and the rising unemployment to worry about such a trivial matter.
So all in all I don't think there’s much to choose between either party, except the fact that labour will never overturn the hunting act.....and for me, that makes them hands down winners.
Yes we can speculate about what the conservatives might do, yes we can see what they did in the past BUT we are living right now with what labour have done. Oh and don't get me wrong, I am not saying I would vote conservative. What I am saying is that before i placed my vote I would look at all the manifesto items that might affect me and not just decide on how it might or might not affect the lives of foxes. I am sorry but i consider my family and myself more important than the fox population of this country (or rabbits, squirells etct etc etc)
One last point, all the evils of the conservatives have been mentioned. Labour have now been in power for a number of years. How many of these evils have they got rid of? Somehwere between zero and zero i fear.
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having just re-read your post India i was intrigued as to why someone who advocates the banning of fox hunting to protect the foxes sees the reduction in the abortion limit as a bad thing? Please don't misunderstand me I am not asking this to get at you but am genuinely interested in your thoughts
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Yann
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I wouldn't advocate poisoning foxes unless someone presented me with compelling evidence that it was really necessary to do so and that a more humane alternative didn't exist.
Do we really need to inflict unnecessary pain and suffering for our survival as a species?
Whether we kill animals or not, they are going to die, no argument there - and animals don't need us to suffer either. The question is whether or not it is right for us to add to that suffering for dubious reasons. Of course, opinions differ about what is dubious. Killing for pleasure or sport seems vulgar and demeaning to me, but there may be other reasons (or excuses) to justify doing so. To my mind, hunting with hounds lies in a grey area between reason and excuse. The population control argument is clearly spurious on the evidence presented so far - yet it appears to be very hard for some to let go of this idea. However, I accept it may be necessary for some specific foxes to be culled for economic reasons - probably far fewer than the hunt actually used to take annually.
Assuming that some foxes have to be killed, there's a range of methods available. None of the available methods is ideal, but we can at least choose the one that minimizes suffering and targets the right animals most effectively (depending on local circumstances). If it is hunting with hounds, so be it. However, the evidence I have seen points shooting as being the better method. If you have evidence proving the contrary, do please share it with us.
In any case, whether it provides sport for people should be a minor consideration. Putting sport above humane treatment is simply wrong. Or do you disagree?
In strictly legal terms, killing animals isn't murder, of course - but that doesn't diminish its potential repugnance. (In strictly legal terms, boffing animals isn't rape either, but we all agree how repugnant that is.)
Actually, I share your despair at our illiberal nanny state and am disturbed by the neglect of rural communities. I think the hunting legislation was botched despite the disproportionate amount of parliamentary time spent on it.
Nice rant though...
I'm guessing your nose doesn't get chance to gather much smog when pointed so highly upwards so as you can look down it at such a large percentage of the population.
I think you can safely congratulate yourself here.. in the space of just one post you have managing to not only strengthen the snotty, arrogant, socialite stereotype that hunt-supporters have spent so much time and energy trying to dissprove but also to completely ridicule and deface all the rational and educated discussion that the pro-hunt supporters have put forward on this thread. What a shame for them to have had all their time and words ruined by one ignorant fools witterings.
Oh and just on the off chance you ever prise your head out of your own proverbial for long enough to open your eyes and look outside of your own tiny, sheltered world a well known quote you may want to take heed of "ASSUME makes an ASS out of U and ME" .. And on that note I'm off to take my smog-dusted nose with me and take the dogs for a run in the village.. or I may pop round to visit my parents on the farm I grew up on.
I'm guessing your nose doesn't get chance to gather much smog when pointed so highly upwards so as you can look down it at such a large percentage of the population.
I think you can safely congratulate yourself here.. in the space of just one post you have managing to not only strengthen the snotty, arrogant, socialite stereotype that hunt-supporters have spent so much time and energy trying to dissprove but also to completely ridicule and deface all the rational and educated discussion that the pro-hunt supporters have put forward on this thread. What a shame for them to have had all their time and words ruined by one ignorant fools witterings.
Oh and just on the off chance you ever prise your head out of your own proverbial for long enough to open your eyes and look outside of your own tiny, sheltered world a well known quote you may want to take heed of "ASSUME makes an ASS out of U and ME" .. And on that note I'm off to take my smog-dusted nose with me and take the dogs for a run in the village.. or I may pop round to visit my parents on the farm I grew up on.
Excellent post
Being a mere commoner who isn't a 'true' countrywoman because she does not advocate killing another living being for pleasure and apparently thinks bread and meat are grown in petri dishes, I couldn't have put it better myself
there is someone on this thread , that i hope the foxes come and eat 
i get angry everytime i read this thread. just remember you hunters are the ones breaking the law so dont start having ago at all the people who do the right thing. and communities can still get together and do drag hunts without killing foxes. so your excuse is s***. it is my opinion that these hunters are just murders and im sticking to it
no offence to the snobby people on here
i get angry everytime i read this thread. just remember you hunters are the ones breaking the law so dont start having ago at all the people who do the right thing. and communities can still get together and do drag hunts without killing foxes. so your excuse is s***. it is my opinion that these hunters are just murders and im sticking to it
no offence to the snobby people on here
As for anyone who is concerned about what will happen to the hounds if hunting doesn't continue.. I'm sorry to say that most of them get dumped at the pound when they are about 6 years old anyway. Once they're not young and fit enough to keep up with the hunt anymore they're 'disposed of' and replaced with new recruits. My friend runs a rescue centre and periodically goes and collects all the hounds on death-row at the pound which have been dumped at the end of the hunting season, some are injured, others just too old to hunt anymore. They're all very sad and confused 
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india
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I'm not getting into a discussion about abortion on a horse forum. I will try to answer your question, but this will be my only post on the subject as it's totally of topic.......
The British Medical Association and the Royal College of Nursing are also opposed to any reduction to the present legal abortion limit and research carried out by the University of Leicester found that in the last 10 years no improvement in survival rates before 24 weeks have occured.
Women who terminate a pregnancy as late as in the 23rd week do so because they’re in a desperate situation, they’re either very young, been abused or in a violent relationship. This is no doubt one of the hardest decissions they ever have to make. Most suffer from depression and need councilling after the termination. These women need help, protection and above all, access to a safe, legal abortion.....the last thing they need is to be made feel guiltier than they already do, by politicians and anti abortionists pointing their fingers at them!!!!
In my opinion, this is one area where arguments for civil liberty and freedom of choice should be directed, not towards trivial matters like not being able to legally hunt with a pack of hounds, banning christmas decorations and flying the flag.
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india
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I'm beginning to wonder if your a flat capped townie yourself, because most of what your posting about rural life appears to be coming from information gathered from hunt supporters via the internet...not by actually living breathing and working in that environment.
Tell you what.....if you want a real insight, just pm me.
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Yann
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I'm sure I can't be the only one who finds the whole attempt to set this up as some kind of town v. country thing rather puerile? Real life is far more complicated than that.
I'm guessing your nose doesn't get chance to gather much smog when pointed so highly upwards so as you can look down it at such a large percentage of the population.
I think you can safely congratulate yourself here.. in the space of just one post you have managing to not only strengthen the snotty, arrogant, socialite stereotype that hunt-supporters have spent so much time and energy trying to dissprove but also to completely ridicule and deface all the rational and educated discussion that the pro-hunt supporters have put forward on this thread. What a shame for them to have had all their time and words ruined by one ignorant fools witterings.
Oh and just on the off chance you ever prise your head out of your own proverbial for long enough to open your eyes and look outside of your own tiny, sheltered world a well known quote you may want to take heed of "ASSUME makes an ASS out of U and ME" .. And on that note I'm off to take my smog-dusted nose with me and take the dogs for a run in the village.. or I may pop round to visit my parents on the farm I grew up on.
Perfectly put angelfben, I couldn't have worded that better if I'd tried
I'm guessing your nose doesn't get chance to gather much smog when pointed so highly upwards so as you can look down it at such a large percentage of the population.
I think you can safely congratulate yourself here.. in the space of just one post you have managing to not only strengthen the snotty, arrogant, socialite stereotype that hunt-supporters have spent so much time and energy trying to dissprove but also to completely ridicule and deface all the rational and educated discussion that the pro-hunt supporters have put forward on this thread. What a shame for them to have had all their time and words ruined by one ignorant fools witterings.
Oh and just on the off chance you ever prise your head out of your own proverbial for long enough to open your eyes and look outside of your own tiny, sheltered world a well known quote you may want to take heed of "ASSUME makes an ASS out of U and ME" .. And on that note I'm off to take my smog-dusted nose with me and take the dogs for a run in the village.. or I may pop round to visit my parents on the farm I grew up on.
LOL, couldnt have put that any better myself
Enjoy yourselves, everyone.
I can't help it if it is impossible for anyone to stomach an opinion from a working class farmer (of course, any idea that someone MIGHT be of a class above one's own station that makes all the difference - maybe it's the long words that lead a person up the wrong path). Personally, I'm not posh, I just know how to write and speak without a plum in my mouth, and without airs and graces - if anyone would like to sample the true extent of the delights availble, I would be more than happy to recieve a private message about class and education. If the matter weren't about class, the comments about anyone who hunts being "toffy", "snobby", or remotely rich wouldn't be used...but it's a class issue, really, is it not? So, if anyone wants to have a little chinwag with me about class, rather than hunting, go for it. It seems that this entire thread is a backlash against middleclass England - ah, and who says that the class system, chips on shoulders, etc., are dead?
For a somewhat stronger opinion, perhaps try speaking to some of the people in rural Lincs or Yorkshire, they wouldn't be quite so polite, or might not even feel the need to lend the time of day on such a trivial subject. The countryside has its own ways, much like the smog - one can accept them or try to ruin other's lives by working against them in a bid to stick one's nose in where it doesn't belong, and OF COURSE, posts on a website are sure to make such an impact.
Why I've responded more than once, I have no idea, but I'm certain that anyone with a remote clue about hunting its consequences, ideals, intentions and reality can see that it's one of the few standing traditions we have left.
Dillusion must be a wonderful thing - if only I knew.
I'd like to apologise to anyone who takes personal offence to any comments I have made. I do not know who considers themself to be part of a "class", who thinks they know anything about hunting,
I'm simply a horselady, groom, hunter, now also a student, and part-time farmhand/grain tester with an opinion on the subject of hunting. Opinions on a topic are one thing;, personal grudges are ridiculous, but it is great that there are people who have bothered to learn their stuff about hunting, even if they've previously not known a sausage - I'm glad that the tradition is so interesting.
Regards, Sarah
I can't help it if it is impossible for anyone to stomach an opinion from a working class farmer (of course, any idea that someone MIGHT be of a class above one's own station that makes all the difference - maybe it's the long words that lead a person up the wrong path). Personally, I'm not posh, I just know how to write and speak without a plum in my mouth, and without airs and graces - if anyone would like to sample the true extent of the delights availble, I would be more than happy to recieve a private message about class and education. If the matter weren't about class, the comments about anyone who hunts being "toffy", "snobby", or remotely rich wouldn't be used...but it's a class issue, really, is it not? So, if anyone wants to have a little chinwag with me about class, rather than hunting, go for it. It seems that this entire thread is a backlash against middleclass England - ah, and who says that the class system, chips on shoulders, etc., are dead?
For a somewhat stronger opinion, perhaps try speaking to some of the people in rural Lincs or Yorkshire, they wouldn't be quite so polite, or might not even feel the need to lend the time of day on such a trivial subject. The countryside has its own ways, much like the smog - one can accept them or try to ruin other's lives by working against them in a bid to stick one's nose in where it doesn't belong, and OF COURSE, posts on a website are sure to make such an impact.
Why I've responded more than once, I have no idea, but I'm certain that anyone with a remote clue about hunting its consequences, ideals, intentions and reality can see that it's one of the few standing traditions we have left.
Dillusion must be a wonderful thing - if only I knew.
I'd like to apologise to anyone who takes personal offence to any comments I have made. I do not know who considers themself to be part of a "class", who thinks they know anything about hunting,
I'm simply a horselady, groom, hunter, now also a student, and part-time farmhand/grain tester with an opinion on the subject of hunting. Opinions on a topic are one thing;, personal grudges are ridiculous, but it is great that there are people who have bothered to learn their stuff about hunting, even if they've previously not known a sausage - I'm glad that the tradition is so interesting.
Regards, Sarah
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india
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Madam_Sarah
One things for certain, if you where a true working class farmer, you'd be to busy working the land and/or caring for your stock to have time take on extra part time jobs AND study at university.
One things for certain, if you where a true working class farmer, you'd be to busy working the land and/or caring for your stock to have time take on extra part time jobs AND study at university.
Hi India sorry this is OT but I was wondering what happened with that poor little pony you were going to rescue?
Thanks
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Thanks
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india
Guest
Sorry horses4eva888, I've only recently returned to the forum after having a spell in hospital.
Unfortunately, "poor ponie's" owner never got back in touch, presumably because he knew I wasn't prepared to pay the price he was asking for him.
I like to think that after all the publicity, he eventually found a home where he could have chance to behave like a youngster and mature naturally...
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