The stupid hunt ....

[india]

I'm sorry but I find this a little bit offensive. My OH is a working class farmer and also works full time, he also studied at uni. Perhaps your idea of a farmer is a little chocolate-boxy? Farmers have to work very hard to make money due to the falling value of dead stock and the cut back in subsidies.

And likewise...I find your post a little offensive!!!

If your husband has a full time job and also found time to study at university then there is absolutely NO WAY he could be a true working class farmer...smallholder or part time farm hand maybe, but nothing more!!!!

Don't bother spouting ideas of me having "chocolate boxy" images of working class farmers because my father spent all his working life trying to make ends meet often working 18 hours a day to keep his farm from going under.

It's posts like these that make my blood boil!!!!

 

[Blue3]

And so it goes on ....and on......and on.........and zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Haphazard]

If your husband has a full time job and also found time to study at university then there is absolutely NO WAY he could be a true working class farmer...smallholder or part time farm hand maybe, but nothing more!!!!

Unless you know the person in question it is probably best not to make such sweeping assumptions. They do little to help support any arguement or give credibility to your cause. I make this statement irrespective of any views hunting

 

[india]

Unless you know the person in question it is probably best not to make such sweeping assumptions. They do little to help support any arguement or give credibility to your cause. I make this statement irrespective of any views hunting

The same could be said for the poster's sweeping suggestion that I only had chocolate box ideas about working class farmers.

My post had nothing to do with supporting any views on hunting, I'm just sick and tired of folks making assumptions that all anti's know sod all about the rural community and farming life....

It will be interesting to read how a working class farmer can hold down a full time job, study at university and manage a farm without hired help!!!

 

[Yann]

My post had nothing to do with supporting any views on hunting, I'm just sick and tired of folks making assumptions that all anti's no sod all about the rural community and farming life....

Exactly. There is as much opposition to hunting in the country as there is in the city where the ignorant smog heads live. It isn't a 'city v. country' issue, it just suits some viewpoints to try and make it that way.

 

[Haphazard]

Exactly. There is as much opposition to hunting in the country as there is in the city
.

Hmm not sure which Hunts actually hunt in the city

Maybe the opposition in the country is from all the city dwellers who have moved out to try rural life? I have a friend who is a farmer. A house near his farm has been sold to an ex city dweller who has now lodged a complaint with the council about the smell of cow dung from the farm. surely people move to the country to embrace country life, not to live city life without the city. Sorry for rambling a bit off topic

 

[india]

Maybe the opposition in the country is from all the city dwellers who have moved out to try rural life? I have a friend who is a farmer. A house near his farm has been sold to an ex city dweller who has now lodged a complaint with the council about the smell of cow dung from the farm. surely people move to the country to embrace country life, not to live city life without the city. Sorry for rambling a bit off topic

Going on percentages, I’d say in general, 75% of town and city folk who’ve relocated to villages in my area have fitted into the community well. They take an active part in fund raising, church fetes and school activities. Some made the effort to visit and are now regular faces at the social club in the hamlet where I live...which is great.

Then I’d estimate 23% tend to remain as ‘outsiders’ by not mixing or wanting to be part of the community.....and fair play to them, if that’s what they want, it’s their choice.

However, the remaining 2% are definitely not suited to rural life and in my opinion would have fared better staying in the city. These are the folk who, like your farmer friend’s neighbour complains at every inconvenience caused by living in a rural area, such as cockerels waking them up, the smell from muckspreading and tractors leaving mud on the road!!!

I don't think anyone actually get's offended by them, infact their ramblings and complaints often make a good topic of conversation.

 

[HashRouge]

Ironically, the issue of country v city in regards to fox hunting came up with my uni friends just the other day. One of my friends, Jenny, and me are utterly opposed to fox hunting. We are both country girls born and bred. On the other hand, a lot of her flatmates - all of them from cities - supported fox hunting.
I do agree with the person who said quite a lot of country people are opposed to fox hunting. Where I live (cheshire), the majority of people I know are against fox hunting, and they were all born and brought up in the countryside. Like the woman who owned the yard I used to keep my horse on. She's had horses and donkeys for all of her life (she's over 60 now) and owns her own little farm with dogs, cats and a few chickens as well as the other animals. Anyway, earlier this year she lost all but one of her hens and the cockerel to a fox because she didn't lock them in properly (she thought the hens were all in the coop when she closed it, but actually they'd hidden themselves under some bushes nearby we think). My next door neighbours, who only live in their house about 1/4 of the year because they generally live in the city where the husband works, took it upon themselves to wait for the fox to show itself and shoot it. Of course, there is no saying this was the same fox - it could have been any old unlucky sod! My yard owner was extremely upset about this - as she said, she hated losing the hens, but if you don't lock them up well enough the foxes will get at them. So it just goes to show, you can't assume all country people approve of fox hunting.
Whats worse (I hate my nextdoor neighbours), is that they never remove the body of the fox (they've done this before. When I was 14, I stumbled across the body of one of the foxes they'd shot and then left under a gap in the fence, believing it would stop the other foxes from entering the field. The fox's cubs were clambering all over the body, mewling. I was utterly distraught ). So, in the summer, something unearthed the fox's mostly decomposed body and dragged it onto the path we take when bringing the horses in and out of the field. NOT something you want to have to deal with!

 

[colettybetty]

The generalisation of town verses country folk doesn't hold water.The nearest some country dwellers get to village life is driving to work along the country lanes before hitting the motorway. Just as a significant number of people who hunt have them on full hunting livery and only see their horses when they hunt them.One local yard owner commented on how most of her owners live and work in London and travel the 90 minute journey to hunt twice a week. Suppose they are 'country folk' for a few hours during the season....

 

[Francis Burton]

Maybe the opposition in the country is from all the city dwellers who have moved out to try rural life? I have a friend who is a farmer. A house near his farm has been sold to an ex city dweller who has now lodged a complaint with the council about the smell of cow dung from the farm. surely people move to the country to embrace country life, not to live city life without the city. Sorry for rambling a bit off topic

Stories abound about city folks moving to the country and then complaining vociferously about smells and noisy cockerels. I'm sure there are quite a few of those types, and I agree it's foolish and inconsiderate of them to expect things to be changed to match their unreasonable expectations.

I'm sure there are also quite a few who move to the country aspiring to the life of the country squire and who are enthusiastic about hunting - perhaps for the wrong reasons, seeing participation as a status symbol.

However, support for fox hunting amongst people who have lived in the country all or most of their lives is not universal. It may even be rather patchy - I would like to see figures. Personally, I know country people (who keep livestock) who are not in favour of fox hunting.

Country people have various reasons to feel disillusioned and hard done by, some of which I fully sympathize with. However, I think the perception of an urban-rural divide has been encouraged much more by certain sections of the rural population - typified and led by the Countryside Alliance - than by city dwellers. The CA would have us believe that support in the countryside for hunting is unanimous. But when people who went on the Liberty and Livelihood March were polled by MORI, only 27% of respondents thought that fox hunting and hunting with dogs should be the primary concern of the CA.
Nevertheless, the hunting lobby has succeeded to some extent in its aim to "Wrap hunting up in the wider rural fabric. Because everyone loves the countryside and hates hunting". (Indeed, some of that hype is evident in this thread!)

 

[Haphazard]

But when people who went on the Liberty and Livelihood March were polled by MORI, only 27% of respondents thought that fox hunting and hunting with dogs should be the primary concern of the CA.

Some one once said "there are lies, damned lies and statistics" Whilst i do not dispute the figures from Mori it is easy to put a slant on it. It is easy to imply that because 63% don't consider it the most important thing that it is not important to them but may not be the truth. these 63% may be in situations that have a direct impact on there livelyhoods/family where they feel the CA could be doing more and naturally feel this is more important to them.

Reminds me of when the O/H says which of these two dresses to you like the most? I say "That one" and get the reply "Why don't you like this one?" I never said i didn't like it

 

[MagicSix]

I do agree that the hunting debate is not as simple as town vs country. I have lived in the country all my life and am quite 'happy' about death and circle of life etc as long as no suffering/little suffering is involved. However, it really annoys me when people assume (and this includes the CA) that all country folk support hunting - was at one of the county shows this year (can't remember which but think it is either Devon or Somerset) when it was announced on the tannoy how all country people would want hunting back and we should fight the city dwellers, and this from a well known commentator!

Going back to OP, I do think the hunt do have a certain responcibility to make sure that their activities do not harm other people/property - as they now know roughly what route they are going to take, couldn't they warn landowners on the day? Just because there is a whole bunch of them doesn't give them more rights -- if I were riding by a field and the horse going nuts I know I would slow down so not to cause injury to that horse, if they warned land owners and horses that were likely to be affectted were kept away then surley that would increase their pleasure also

 

[Francis Burton]

Some one once said "there are lies, damned lies and statistics" Whilst i do not dispute the figures from Mori it is easy to put a slant on it. It is easy to imply that because 63% don't consider it the most important thing that it is not important to them but may not be the truth. these 63% may be in situations that have a direct impact on there livelyhoods/family where they feel the CA could be doing more and naturally feel this is more important to them.

Point taken, though it should also be noted that it was 63% of those people who took the trouble to attend the march. One wonders what percentage of everyone else would consider supporting fox hunting to be a worthy cause.

 

[Cerys]

The same could be said for the poster's sweeping suggestion that I only had chocolate box ideas about working class farmers.

My post had nothing to do with supporting any views on hunting, I'm just sick and tired of folks making assumptions that all anti's know sod all about the rural community and farming life....

It will be interesting to read how a working class farmer can hold down a full time job, study at university and manage a farm without hired help!!!

Sorry been away for the weekend. Because otherwise we would have lost the farm. True, when he was at uni his dad was still working on the farm. The only hired help he has is me! and I work full time too so not much help.

 

[Cerys]

Also perhaps I should clarify what type of farm it is as undoubtedly each one is different. We have sheep (a mule flock, a swaledale flock and a continental flock), and a suckler heard. So yes, if it was dairy I would probably have to agree with you but as it is we just about manage.

 

[india]

Sorry been away for the weekend. Because otherwise we would have lost the farm. True, when he was at uni his dad was still working on the farm. The only hired help he has is me! and I work full time too so not much help.

For what it’s worth, my father was a dairy farmer and sheep breeder who worked his farm single handed because he couldn’t afford to employ a farmhand or stockperson. The only help he occasionally got was from students on work experience from the local agricultural college.

Cery’s, have you got a farm or a smallholding because any farmer in the same position as my father (irrespective of what they farm) would find it impossible to hold down an extra full time job without a lot of help.

 

[Valaraki]

Dont have any problems with hunts as they dont come over our way!!

 

[Francis Burton]

There have been a few polls showing a majority of country-dwellers did not support fox hunting.

The IFAW (International Fund for Animal Welfare) submission of evidence for the hunting inquiry is quite interesting.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/rural/hunting/inquiry/evidence/ifaw.htm

Quote:
Opinion polls reveal that the majority of country dwellers wish to see a ban on hunting(xix) and that the quality of life of rural people may be adversely affected by hunt havoc, trespass and intimidation. Barry Leathwood, National Secretary of the Rural, Agricultural and Allied Workers section of the TGWU was born on a farm, and now dedicates his life to the issue of rural employment. In 1998 he told a seminar: "We are totally opposed to the unnecessary cruelty which the hunt represents. This policy was decided by our own rural members who work on the farms and estates, who fully understand the issues."(xx)

However, I haven't managed to find any reference to more recent polls which would indicate if attitudes have changed at all since the ban. I imagine there could be some (understandable) backlash against perceived Nanny-Statism.

 

[devonlass]

I attempted to read all of this thread and gave up at around page 14,way too long!!
Have scanned the last couple of pages though and appears we have moved onto the 'townies' vs 'coutryside' folk??
I am born and bred in a vllage in Devon,which I believe still counts as 'countryside',definitely more bumpkin that townie anyway
I am very anti-hunt and I believe so are many other 'countryside' people.I would imagine TBH that the actual numbers of people who support hunting are fairly small when compared to the country's population.

I don't think it makes me fluffy or sentimental to not support hunting as has been implied,I think it makes me a civilised human being

Or maybe I'm just weird in that I don't feel the the need to gallop across the countryside terrorising small animals
But each to their own of course,whatever floats your boat

 

[Cerys]

India- It is a farm, mostly hill and fell but with some lowland. I really don't want to get into a discussion over this as it is not why I come on NR. I just don't think we should be arguing over farm size (its come a long way from the hunt going past a persons field hasn't it?).

I apologise for saying that you had a chocolate boxy image of farming, it had nothing to do with the fact that you are an anti, its just the way that your post came across.