The Trust Technique

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valkyrie

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Feb 8, 2010
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West Yorkshire
I hope this is the right place to post this thread as not sure where it belongs :confused: newbie etc.

Has anyone tried this? I've got a lovely lady called Gill coming out to Lou on Thursday and I've seen the results it's had with Grace at Hope Pastures.

:o I'm Hopefull it will tell me why he's so 'bit shy' (had his teeth checked, flotated etc.:confused:

He's fabulous when under saddle, getting a bridle on him is a totally different issue :confused:
 
Hm trying to think of the best way to describe it. Its a cognitive therapy for animals (but works on people too) in which they are brought into the 'present' so that their minds are not full of past influences/anxieties etc.

To start off with I was put into the relaxed state. As I practice meditation, this was achieved quite easily but Louis had other ideas and tried EVERYTHING to get my attention, short of taking a chunk out of my shoulder.

Today I tried it again however, and he was much calmer, he didn't try to knock my head off my shoulders like he did yesterday (I wore my hat just in case tho lol)

Gill is also a zoo pharmologic something and she brought all her herbs and oils. Louis munched his way through half a bag of rosehips, a scoop full of everything else she offered and chose neroli oil which is apparantly for deep rooted trauma. I said I'd better have half the bottle - for me lol. I inhaled some of it and was high as a kite for the next hour! Smells nice too.

When I put Lou back out he walked quite calmly back to the field and we were prepared for the release of pent up energy and.....nothing he put his head down and started grazing and didn't stop!

2 of the other ponies; Bracken and Timmy licked Gill to death cos she was covered in Barley Grass and Rosehips.

Gill is coming to ours to work on our chinchilla (who was rescued) on Monday!

I'll post the link later or google Trust Technique

Really is fascinating
 
Hhhhmmmm - Well this is supposed to be a 'discussion' forum, so I'll be honest! Sounds a bit gimmicky to me. (Ducks).

'Mindfulness' is used within cognitive-behaviour therapies because humans are very bad at staying in the present moment. We are pulled back and forth between the past (leading to emotions like depression, guilt, regret, anger) and the future (leading to worry/anxiety).

As far as I know animals don't have this problem. They live in the present all the time. Which is why they can be freaked out by a train thundering past their field and 10 secs later be grazing again.

Pain/fear does cause trauma but something in the PRESENT needs to trigger it off. Eg a raised hand, triggering off fear of a beating. This is unlike us humans who can stress out about anything just by remembering or thinking about it. So I don't see how teaching a horse to be 'present' is necessary.

Teaching a handler mindfulness, on the other hand, is likely to be very helpful as horses are exquisitely sensitive to the emotions of those around them. So calmness and prescence in the handler, will result in a calm, chilled out ponio.

I once had a perfect example of this at a trekking centre: there was a gallop along a wide track with a large stone on one side of the track near the end. Some trek leaders warned riders about the stone, and some didn't. On treks where riders were warned, many horses shied at the stone. When not warned the SAME horses ignored the stone!

If you find it helpful, go for it, but I suspect the effectiveness of it will be due to different processes than teaching a horse to stay present.
 
Dont' worry I'm rubbish at throwing *grin* I know it sounds gimicky but it does seem to have worked well on a lot of animals. Allthough it's true animals don't live in the past like humans can do (me included)certain things can trigger memories e.g. a raised hand, pain etc so will then cause behavioural problems from that triggered memory.

If an animal is fairly chilled and its owner is fairly chilled then all well and good, but if the owner is busy worrying what will happen then the animal can sense this and it will add to their own anxiety, so this technique which is a form of meditation will stop the owner's anxiety therefore (hopefully) resulting in better relationship with the animal. Probably not explained very well but that's why I'm having treatment and not teaching it lol

The real test will be the chinchilla

Valk

(PS works whilst sitting on trains too)
 
So the trainer teachers the owner?
Or the trainer teaches the horse directly?
If the former, I can see how it could be really helpful. Horses are so subtle that I believe we are literally YELLING at them ALL THE TIME. And yelling contradictory or meaningless rubbish at that! Anything that can sloooooow us down and help us tune out the 'oh no, he's gonna bolt/shy/nap/run away....' and tune in to our horses has to be good!
Have you read: Life Lessons From A Ranch Horse by Mark Rashid. A bit off the wall, but might interest you. (Mark seems to think that his old horse Buck is a sort of Zen master!) It's a brilliant read, imo. :)
 
Hi yes I thought she was coming to train lous but I was the one who got the training. So far the results have been...

Session 1 - Me chilled, Louis frustrated and wanting to be out, trying to get my attention and clobbering me on head, nibbling etc
Session 2 - Me chilled,(wearing hard hat) Louis a bit more chilled, still wanting to be out
Session 3 - me nearly asleep, Louis trying to get my attention, giving up, eating his bed,

Not yet reached the desired result with pony but good for my stress levels. I have to say that I felt a lot more relaxed handling him and grooming him and he was a bit quieter in the stable.

Baby steps

Gill coming back tomorrow to see my progress. She hasn't charged me a penny for the technique and she's not charging me tomorrow. I will of course give a donation to Hope Pastures on her behalf
 
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Interesting this time, when we and Gill were in the stable, Louis did manage to eventually reach a calmer state - apart from when he ws trying to beat up Gill (left me alone interestingly enough)

He chose rose oil and jasmine oil - for me! he nudged me untill I sniffed them and then when I stopped he nudged me again. They are both for emotional healing, I was nearly in tears. We gave rose oil to this poor chestnut mare who used to be a brood mare and the next day her owner said she couldn't work out why she was so chilled. (They are freinds and I knew they wouldn't mind)

The herbs and oils are nothing to do with the trust technique Gill is a Zoo Pharmocognisist. She also gave me some neem oil for flies and he seemed to want the whole bottle.

Part 3 coming soon
 
I find with any form of "training" it's the owner that needs it not the horse, they are simple creatures, it's us putting on our human emotions that cause the problems, along with our predetor hands.

If you find it is helping then that's the main thing, it's all about working with the horse and the owner together. Thinking outside the box sometimes gets results.

Horses do live for the present, unless something very traumatic has happened to them which will trigger a memory. Our thinking though is all the place and we spend much of it worrying instead of dealing with it if it happens. Positive thinking is useful, don't know if has name these days, someone somewhere will have written a book on it and sold it to us no doubt!

ETA if a horse accepts herbs it's because they know they lack it. They wouldn't otherwise bother, my pony will turn his nose up at dandylion after a few days of just being allowed to pick at it. He has yet to turn his nose up at rosehips, so he needs it.
 
If it is the same Gill..she gave us invaluable advice over the telephone as how to choose herbs and oils to keep one of our show TBs calm in the ring when he was in the final at Hickstead (think 36 retrained racehorses in masssive ring just before the Derby!!)

We poured the oil he had previously 'chosen' on our gloves as when stresses he like you to rub his teeth and gums.....yes he is quirky!!!!
 
At the risk of sounding stupid (I'm not honestly) how do we actually know that horses live in the present and that they don't have memories like us? I mean, who knows? How do we know they don't indulge in a little trip down memory lane now and again? If my Storm has had a foal (which vet wasn't sure of either way) would she remember it? Would she have the capacity to miss it? hmm.
 
The brain is the size of a walnut, the memory no one can know for sure, but since they have simple lives and priority is will i get eaten, where is the leader, where is the food, the memories would reflect this.

A mare who has had a foal will have dropped teats?
 
newforest said:
The brain is the size of a walnut
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Typically horses' brains are a bit bigger than that, unless you're talking about teeny ponies. "An adult horse's brain weighs 400-700g" and is roughly the size of a clenched fist.

the memory no one can know for sure
Click to expand...
Though it can be measured though experiment - e.g. "one horse learned to obtain a food reward by picking the correct choice in each of 20 pairs of patterns. At the end of the training period, the horse's performance with four of the pairs was perfect, and even the 'hardest' pair was discriminated correctly 73 per cent of the time. A year later, the horse showed hardly any memory loss."

but since they have simple lives and priority is will i get eaten, where is the leader, where is the food, the memories would reflect this.
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Agreed. It would make sense for horses to be best at remembering the kind of things that are important to horses.
 
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