Too fat for a pony?!

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My pony is a newforest personally very few I meet I would suggest being ridden by someone 16stone or thereabouts it borders on cruel for some breeds to be ridden by excessively heavy people.

I mean to be honest between as in my example a 14.2 and a 15.1 there is very little difference the OP is not a sufferer of arthritis or any dehabilitating injury to make her mounting harder, so why risk back pain in a pony when there are horses out there that are suitable (obv as already stated larger Fells, Highlands should be fine) or loose weight before purchasing the horse so you know you are well within the relms of its capabilities. I personally wouldn't risk a ponies health in this way

No-ones recommended she gets a Newfie though, if you read OWs post she's said that the best pony to get would be a full up Highland, Fell, Dales or Welsh D. Newfies are nice but not what I'd call a true weight carrier.

Op, I'd suggest a decent full up HiPo or Welsh D... Should be able to cope fine :)
 
I'd just like to add that it has been proved (dont' ask me where though) that most native ponies can carry more weight in relation to their size than horses can.

Lets just say that I am happy to ride my 14hh welshie but I would be very reluctant to ride a 15.2 TB due to my weight.

a few years back....When I was larger (about 15 stone at the time) I regularly rode a stocky 14.2 cobby type at my riding school who was more than comfortable carrying me....one day they put me on a 16hh TB type and I actually ended up pulling him over whilst trying to mount....he may well have been much bigger than the other horse I rode but he just couldn't handle the weight in the same way....gives you something to think about I guess.
 
Getting back to the title of this thread.

A pony is anything under 14.2 right?

If you're looking for an equine companion for yourself and hubby to be in regular work for some years, I would suggest going over the 14.2 threshold and looking for something with good bone around the 15hh mark.

It is all well and good that a smaller native could carry 16 stone for an hours riding a week. Long term, lets say you own this horse for the next 10 years of its life, the possible damage caused does not outweigh the benfit.

Carrying stags is all well and good, but these stags don't clamber on board the horse, putting a foot in one stirrup and hauling themselves up there. They are placed, with no added strain, into the saddle/carrier.

Being short myself I can sympathise with the getting on and off. But IMO if you are fit enough to ride a horse you are fit enough to get on board unaided also. Be it from a wall or gate or whatever takes your fancy. I am 5ft1 and have owned a 17.2.

Any tack fitting problems (and lets face it, horses change shape throughout the year) are going to be magnified if the weight in the saddle is higher too. A tiny tot riding about in an ill fitting saddle will not do as much damage as a 16stone man for example.

Another issue to take into consideration is that of the rider's ability. A horse or pony can carry a balanced heavier person more easily than a lighter unbalanced person. BUT the smaller the horse/pony and the taller the rider (on average men are taller than women) increases the centre of gravity and the whole set up will be more unbalanced.

It is not *just* the size of the horse/pony but also the conformation which needs to be considered. A short back will cope better with weight than a long weak back.

As a personal opinion, I would not like to see a 16 stone rider on anything below 14.2 for regular work. I would also avoid purchasing a youngster if I were 14/16 stone but would look for something that has already had a few years worth of ridden work and started to build up some muscle and topline.
 
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it borders on cruel for some breeds to be ridden by excessively heavy people.
To be frank, I would say it is actually cruel - not merely bordering on cruel - for any breed - not just some breeds - to be ridden by excessively heavy people. Unless you can point me to a post in this thread which I haven't read, no-one has tried to say otherwise. The OP's main concern was that she would NOT be excessively heavy for a suitable pony. However, 'excessive' will be different for different animals in different situations. What would be excessive for a Falabella would not be excessive for a miniature Shetland of traditional Island type. What would be excessive for a 12hh show pony would not be excessive for a 12hh Exmoor. And so on, up the height scale.

I mean to be honest between as in my example a 14.2 and a 15.1 there is very little difference

Are you saying, then, that I am liar, when I tell you that my kitchen cabinets being hung a mere two inches lower than normal have made a HUGE difference in my ability to reach them? Two inches, you must agree, is an even smaller difference than your example of three inches.

the OP is not a sufferer of arthritis or any dehabilitating injury to make her mounting harder,

How do you know? I certainly have seen no medical certificates stating that she is in perfect health and ought to be able and willing to use gymnastic techniques for mounting.

so why risk back pain in a pony when there are horses out there that are suitable (obv as already stated larger Fells, Highlands should be fine)
No one is even suggesting 'risking back pain'. Do you have a selective reading disability, are you just unusually obtuse, or have you simply not seen the suggestions of suitable weight-carrying breeds in several posts?

or loose weight before purchasing the horse so you know you are well within the relms of its capabilities.
And who, pray, are YOU to demand that a person unknown to you should lose weight? It is none of your business.

I personally wouldn't risk a ponies health in this way

Neither would the OP or any other poster in this thread, and none have suggested it other than you.

You are being increasingly ridiculous, making pronouncements on things of which you clearly have little or no knowledge or experience.

BTW you haven't explained to me why I am neither a raving beauty nor a genius, given that I am an Englishwoman like Miss World and the Noble prize winner!
 
This is getting ridiculous. If the OP does want to ride a horse under 14.2 then maybe she could get away with it on a few occasions. BUT her husband, as she has stated, is 16 stone, and I wouldn't want to put this weight on any pony so I don't think Shandy is wrong or rude to suggest that if they do want to ride horses under this height then they should lose weight.
 
No one is even suggesting 'risking back pain'. Do you have a selective reading disability

BTW you haven't explained to me why I am neither a raving beauty nor a genius, given that I am an Englishwoman like Miss World and the Noble prize winner!

Nobel? :confused:

Disability comment a little inappropriate
 
A pony is anything under 14.2 right?

But 'anything' under 14.2 is not what is being suggested. Very specific breeds - which just do not 'happen' over 14.2, and which are specifically bred with the conformation suitable for weight-carrying and taking-up leg - are being recommended.

If you're looking for an equine companion for yourself and hubby to be in regular work for some years, I would suggest going over the 14.2 threshold and looking for something with good bone around the 15hh mark.

The problem is that you don't get real weight-carrying native breeds at 15hh. Welsh Sec Ds are apt to get leggy and less 'solid' when their height increases; the old-fashioned steady types - not the more showy types - are usually around 14hh from what I have seen.

It is all well and good that a smaller native could carry 16 stone for an hours riding a week. Long term, lets say you own this horse for the next 10 years of its life, the possible damage caused does not outweigh the benefit.

If a native such as a Fell, Dales or Highland could only carry 16 stone for an hour's ride once a week, they wouldn't be much good for the purposes for which they were AND STILL ARE used and bred, with active working lives into the high teens/early twenties and longer.

Carrying stags is all well and good, but these stags don't clamber on board the horse, putting a foot in one stirrup and hauling themselves up there. They are placed, with no added strain, into the saddle/carrier.

You are clearly unaware of the much greater difficulty that carrying a dead weight presents to a horse, the topography of the countryside and the footing below, over which the stags must be carried.

Being short myself I can sympathise with the getting on and off. But IMO if you are fit enough to ride a horse you are fit enough to get on board unaided also. Be it from a wall or gate or whatever takes your fancy. I am 5ft1 and have owned a 17.2.

Try finding a wall or gate or whatever takes your fancy in miles of trackless open moorland, or on a beach.
Try it 20 years or so post-menopause, when osteoporosis, hormones and natural wear-and-tear has reduced your height by an inch or so, and you have arthritis in your back, your knees, your shoulders and your hips ... you'll still be plenty fit enough to ride - in fact riding and swimming might be the only exercises with which you are still totally comfortable - but will dream of a portable hoist to get you on and off - or a shrinking horse!


Any tack fitting problems (and lets face it, horses change shape throughout the year) are going to be magnified if the weight in the saddle is higher too. A tiny tot riding about in an ill fitting saddle will not do as much damage as a 16stone man for example.

Another issue to take into consideration is that of the rider's ability. A horse or pony can carry a balanced heavier person more easily than a lighter unbalanced person.

True - and no-one would argue with this.

BUT the smaller the horse/pony and the taller the rider (on average men are taller than women) increases the centre of gravity and the whole set up will be more unbalanced.

I'm not sure what you mean by " increases the centre of gravity ". The centre of gravity doesn't have a size, it has a position. And which or whose centre of gravity? What 'set up' is more unbalanced - and 'more unbalanced' than what?

It is not *just* the size of the horse/pony but also the conformation which needs to be considered.

Exactly - a very important point, and that is why the Highland, Fjord, Fell and similar types are being recommended. They have, generally, EXACTLY the type of conformation which is required for weight-carrying ability.

As a personal opinion, I would not like to see a 16 stone rider on anything below 14.2 for regular work..

Of course you are entitled to your personal opinion. but you would see a lot that you don't like if you went to any of the many shows where large native ponies are exhibited in ridden performance classes. There are many things I don't like to see, but I have to put up with the sight, or look away.
 
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From the rather knowing look in Fakur's eye I'm guessing he'd deal very effectively with any rider he thought was too heavy - or that did anythng that annoyed him!

I do wish you'd stop posting pics of these lovely ponies (or are they called horses :confused:) Frances! The OH won't let me have anymore & I can't possibly get rid of Jim or Little Un (who's starting to look like a proper Sec D now & quite misnamed except when stood next to Jim :o) but everytime you put up pictures like these I start getting itchy fingers because they're so cute. So please just STOP IT :D:D:D
 
But 'anything' under 14.2 is not what is being suggested. Very specific breeds - which just do not 'happen' over 14.2, and which are specifically bred with the conformation suitable for weight-carrying and taking-up leg - are being recommended.





If a native such as a Fell, Dales or Highland could only carry 16 stone for an hour's ride once a week, they wouldn't be much good for the purposes for which they were AND STILL ARE used and bred, with active working lives into the high teens/early twenties and longer.



You are clearly unaware of the much greater difficulty that carrying a dead weight presents to a horse, the topography of the countryside and the footing below, over which the stags must be carried.



Try finding a wall or gate or whatever takes your fancy in miles of trackless open moorland, or on a beach.
Try it 20 years or so post-menopause, when osteoporosis, hormones and natural wear-and-tear has reduced your height by an inch or so, and you have arthritis in your back, your knees, your shoulders and your hips ... you'll still be plenty fit enough to ride - in fact riding and swimming might be the only exercises with which you are still totally comfortable - but will dream of a portable hoist to get you on and off - or a shrinking horse!




True - and no-one would argue with this.



I'm not sure what you mean by " increases the centre of gravity ". The centre of gravity doesn't have a size, it has a position. And which or whose centre of gravity? What 'set up' is more unbalanced - and 'more unbalanced' than what?



Exactly - a very important point, and that is why the Highland, Fjord, Fell and similar types are being recommended. They have, generally, EXACTLY the type of conformation which is required for weight-carrying ability.



Of course you are entitled to your personal opinion. but you would see a lot that you don't like if you went to any of the many shows where large native ponies are exhibited in ridden performance classes. There are many things I don't like to see, but I have to put up with the sight, or look away.

For an old woman you are very good at using a computer. I know most old women I know wouldnt even know how to switch one on, let alone multi quote! :D :D

Oh wait I am making a generalisation.... ;)

But 'anything' under 14.2 is not what is being suggested. Very specific breeds - which just do not 'happen' over 14.2, and which are specifically bred with the conformation suitable for weight-carrying and taking-up leg - are being recommended.

Firstly, the welsh Sec D would be a good weight carrying breed I would reccomend. And they do go over 14.2 (in response to one of your comments).

f a native such as a Fell, Dales or Highland could only carry 16 stone for an hour's ride once a week, they wouldn't be much good for the purposes for which they were AND STILL ARE used and bred, with active working lives into the high teens/early twenties and longer.

I have to disagree. More and more these 'natives' are being bred for showing purposes and *not* as working horses in the sense of 'working' 100 years ago.


You are clearly unaware of the much greater difficulty that carrying a dead weight presents to a horse, the topography of the countryside and the footing below, over which the stags must be carried.
Damn you've got me on that one. I am clearly very unaware. Not exactly something that happens on a regular basis in my neck of the woods!

Try finding a wall or gate or whatever takes your fancy in miles of trackless open moorland, or on a beach.
Try it 20 years or so post-menopause, when osteoporosis, hormones and natural wear-and-tear has reduced your height by an inch or so, and you have arthritis in your back, your knees, your shoulders and your hips ... you'll still be plenty fit enough to ride - in fact riding and swimming might be the only exercises with which you are still totally comfortable - but will dream of a portable hoist to get you on and off - or a shrinking horse!
Ahhh a good old generalisation. I suffer from arthritis.

True - and no-one would argue with this.
Thanks :D

I'm not sure what you mean by " increases the centre of gravity ". The centre of gravity doesn't have a size, it has a position. And which or whose centre of gravity? What 'set up' is more unbalanced - and 'more unbalanced' than what?
An increase in the centre of gravity is an increase in vertical position of the 'centre of gravity'. The centre of gravity is combined, that of the horse and rider. The taller a person on board, the higher the centre of gravity, and the more unbalanced the horse will be. Common sense combined with physics!

Exactly - a very important point, and that is why the Highland, Fjord, Fell and similar types are being recommended. They have, generally, EXACTLY the type of conformation which is required for weight-carrying ability.
I'm quite good when it comes to important points :D Although as a huge fan of the breed itself & of their weight carrying ability, may i please add the welsh section D to this list?

(Please note my inability to multiquote!)
 
old woman I do not want to bicker with you, neither you nor I are more able to advise the OP we have a different point of view and you back biting at me will not change that fact or make my opinion based on personal experience of my own and a number of others from native breeds any less valid, as already suggested the only way to truly know is to get your RI to attend viewings
 
I think basically it comes down to choosing breed carefully (Highland, Dales, Fells and Welsh cobs from Britain's natives, or Fjords and Icelandics will all be up to weight for most adults), and making sure you have a good, well-conformed example of the breed you choose (poorly put together examples will not be as capable as good ones).

Make sure you don't hike your stirrups up to hide your leg length - ride your normal length. A lot of the time you'll find these breeds take up a longer leg very well anyway and there'll be no need to worry. If not, you'll be better balanced (and therefore your horse will be too) riding your normal length so the length of your leg balances that of your body.

And of course make sure tack is a good fit - both to you and your horse.

Good luck :)
 
i dont think a traditional native type would be a bad choice for you (provided it was tradtional and not from "modern" stock;))

i'm 5"3 and have 15.2's but dont find them hard to tack up etc??:confused: (i also need a mounting block- purely because im a lazy g*t;))

maybe the horse you ride is just bloshy as you say - doesnt mean all 15.2 cobs are;) some people on here have lovelly weight carrying 15.2's as well so i wouldnt by pass them completely when trying horses out, good luck:)
 
I think basically it comes down to choosing breed carefully (Highland, Dales, Fells and Welsh cobs from Britain's natives, or Fjords and Icelandics will all be up to weight for most adults), and making sure you have a good, well-conformed example of the breed you choose (poorly put together examples will not be as capable as good ones).

Make sure you don't hike your stirrups up to hide your leg length - ride your normal length. A lot of the time you'll find these breeds take up a longer leg very well anyway and there'll be no need to worry. If not, you'll be better balanced (and therefore your horse will be too) riding your normal length so the length of your leg balances that of your body.

And of course make sure tack is a good fit - both to you and your horse.

Good luck :)

Spot on advice as usual!
 
old woman- talk about answer for everything, i would get a whack if i came up with that many excuses when my dad was here!

many of the natives are completely different now to how even you will remember them, let alone when they were purely for farmers etc

look on allbreedpedigree.com at the pictures of welsh cobs especially- some of the old well known ones, hendy brenin, brenin gwalia. more recently (although still way before my birth!) heliguchel craddock and most if not all of his progeny (some that are around today, we owned brenhindy tywysog ap craddock who was a cracking old fashioned cob with good conformation, breeding and temperament, but no way suitable for the show ring so he wasnt as fashionable to breed from (which is precisely why there isnt many traditional types around, let alone ones that are broken or for sale, they tend to be left with a few broodmares to live out there days or for meat)-
this is him (16hh/16.1hh he was a big lad with feet like dinner plates and 11/12 inches of bone)
3362138495a6942490333l.jpg

my dad bought him en route to the knackerman which is why he looks poor in that picture (and its a picture of a picture which doesnt help, this was 2001 roughly)
he was a perfect mans horse and suitable for everything you listed and would slog his heart out, however, just because he is capable of doing the things you have mentioned (carrying a big 17/18 stone farmer up and down the valleys all day) there is no way we would have asked him to.
he was broken to ride and drive by us when he was 14-ish and used for hacking (by my father whos the man in the picture who perhaps deceivingly weighed 16 stone if not more) and weekend drives with my sister and my parents when he was fit and strong enough to, but before that was just running with broodmares, he was no way capable of very hard work safely and it would have resulted in an injury(or 4), be that sway backed, dodgy fetlocks, hocks etc even though conformationally he should have been more than capable.

its like saying to a 20 year old who hasnt run 100m before, oh your healthy, you have long legs and your mums paula radcliffe go run a marathon!
 
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