Tried an experiment - does this mean my RS horse is dead to the leg?

[StartingAgain]

I've been having trouble with turning and my RI has told me occasionally that I ask with the reins first which just pulls the horse's head and instead I should be first using my body and legs.

So I tried an experiment last week when the horses were cooling down at the walk on a loose rein and just asked my horse to turn with just my legs and body position and he didn't turn an inch - just kept going straight.

So now I'm wondering if 1) whether I'm using my body right to ask for the turn or 2) whether he is dead to leg and seat pressure. I basically turned my body in the direction I wanted to turn which applied more leg pressure on the outside. I have ridden other horses that would turn with this without reins but this horse doesn't seem to do so.

Any suggestions?

 

[kusha]

LOL - are you sure you are not me? I had my lesson last night and thought and did the very same. I dropped my reins at the cool down and practised with my legs but he just kept going round the track.

To be honest at RS I think it varies from horse to horse. There are a few at my RS who are fantastic at doing turns on the forehand, leg yields etc. Others that I will get nowhere with - although I would love to see a strong rider with good legs try them and I bet they would manage soemthing.

I put it down to the fact that it is mainly my fault - only riding fortnightly doesn't give my legs the chance to build up the necessary muscles needed and when I try to start pushing my leg on my upper body position goes to pot and I start to lean over (does that make sense?)

Sometimes I think I should get one of these bits of home gym equipment that you put between your and squeeze in and out!!!

 

[xloopylozzax]

he will be programmed to stay on the track and stay straight.

learners tend to give aids without meaning to (especially seat and leg ones) because they are still working out their balance. which is why the horses ignore the smaller aids

 

[NatalieR]

ditto xloopylozzax really

is he used for beginner lessons? if so then he most probably know to go when kicked and stop when yank in the mouth

unfortunately once they get like that most rs's do nothing about them as they find it useful to stick first timers on them. which reminds me of how desperately i want to jump back on some of the old beginners horse just to see if they can do anything but look rather miserable and bored

 

[beakysian]

There's also a chance that once in cool down the horse is ignoring you because he has become used to that being his time to walk and chill without instructions. Perhaps try it again next time, after a long rein cool down, shorten again and ask or a turn without reins and see what happens. Horse is perhaps just being stubborn?

 

[Bay Mare]

Yes, there is probably some truth in the fact that, as a RS horse he's used to giving novice riders the benefit of the doubt but they don't tend to be as shut down as they'll sometimes pretend if it's a good RS

Something to try ...

Don't turn your shoulders into the circle or turn as this will encourage him to fall out through his outside shoulder. If you think about it, turning your shoulders brings your outside hip fowards when, for a turn, you actually need it slightly back.

To turn try and think about advancing your inside hip bone with every stride so that you're pushing it fowards slightly more than the other

Don't think about your shoulders, concentrate on what you're doing with your hip bones

Doing this automatically puts your legs in the correct position for the turn/circle with the outside leg slightly behind the girth and the inside leg on the girth

I gave my niece, who has never ridden before, a lesson on Saffy yesterday and got her doing this (without any rein contact) and she managed to do a fairly passable figure of 8 by just advancing her hip bones.

 

[StartingAgain]

What you all are saying makes a lot of sense.

He is a bit inconsistent which makes things more difficult. Sometimes he's very responsive to the aids. I never have trouble getting him to trot or even to canter. In fact, when we do the individual practice canters on the rail, I have to use my seat to keep him from cantering until we get to the rail. I know he's probably memorized the lesson plan by now but even so I'm pretty successful in keeping him from cantering until we get to the rail. I even tested him by making him trot a little longer when the RI calls for us to walk just to make sure he's responding to me rather than her voice and he listens to me.

The two situations where he is not responsive to my legs only are on the turns and when I want him to pick up the pace in the trot. For getting a more active trot, my balance is good enough to use a combination of a small leg aid and a light tap with the crop at the beginning of the lessons so I don't have to kick or use the crop at all after the first five minutes or so. But its in the turns where I don't have a backup aid other than the reins and he is just not responsive to that. I find that the second time I turn him, he does better so he's smart and can learn what I want him to do but I'd rather not have to go through an awful sloppy turn at first to get a good turn.

My RI told me last week that he used to be a great jumper but he has arthritis now and I'm wondering if its making him a bit stiff in the turns. How can I make it easier for a horse with arthritis to turn?

To turn try and think about advancing your inside hip bone with every stride so that you're pushing it fowards slightly more than the other

Don't think about your shoulders, concentrate on what you're doing with your hip bones

Doing this automatically puts your legs in the correct position for the turn/circle with the outside leg slightly behind the girth and the inside leg on the girth

This sounds like the body position I take to give the aids for canter. Seeing how he loves to canter, I'm a bit nervous about trying this when I just want him to stay in trot but to turn. I'd like to try it though in a safe way; can you explain a little more of how it is different from the aids to canter?

 

[StartingAgain]

Thanks everybody for the advice.

I tried it today with excellent results! I think beakysian was right when she said horses are programmed to shut down at the cool down after the lesson so I tried lots of turns during the warmup and trotting period.

I think what really helped was that I committed with my body to the turn well in advance and gave my horse enough time to get his act together. He was a lot more responsive.

To turn try and think about advancing your inside hip bone with every stride so that you're pushing it fowards slightly more than the other

I tried that; thanks. It seemed he turned a lot more smoothly! I think its just a matter of staying with the horse. My only disappoint was that our RI offered to let us go over crosspoles but Spencer with his arthritis couldn't do it.