Using bute long term

Kia has had arthritis in his hocks since he was 15. He is still sound on no danilon just a joint supplement and plenty of linseed.

He had however managed to do something to his neck, he was very uncomfortable and became a pest to handle, this was investigated and found to be something either an injury or arthritis in there, without scans etc ( too expensive) they cannot be sure. He receives and Danilon a day for this. Hasn’t made any difference to his way of going. He is still an old horse with a massive attitude but he is comfy eating and stretching his neck now so he gets it. This was the reason I got the micklem as I thought the bridle etc was hurting but I rode in a headcollar to the same effect.

We initially thought it to be his shoulder or knee as he kept throwing a certain leg up when he was being a pest. However nerve blocking that brought no difference but manipulating his head and neck did. I left it at that.

I wouldn’t Bute him to make him field sound or ridden sound.
 
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Hmm. I have had a good read of all the replies.I agree with a few. I wouldn't bute a horse purely so i could ride and it mask the pain. But if it helped in the short term i would. With sox due to his gut issues ( bute can upset his stomach) so i don't like to use it in high doses or for a long time. i used the least amount to control his pain and for the shortest time going.
 
I have been in the same boat as you due to the back issues. Exactly the same questions. Continue to ride and Bute (well danilion), retire or PTS.
Mine is not bad enough to PTS.
Vets have said don't retire as he will lose all the muscling he currently has and therefore be worse off quicker. I said how was it fair if I'm causing his back to swell for me to ride. They obviously suggested to continue riding on danilion. I was told any more than two a day long term and it will cause severe liver damage so best to PTS.
Vet advised that i don't have to Bute everyday. But use my discretion. If I know I'm going to work him. Bute perhaps the day before or in the morning before I ride and when I come back.
I'm lucky as well that I found two light weight riders who can ride him and due to there weight the back doesn't swell. They can ride him for an hour at a time for several days with no issues. In the last few months since his back went through a bad patch in December. I have made a decision to limit my rides on him. I've only ridden for 10 minutes about 4 times and done a couple of drives.
I hate not being able to ride him. I feel like I'm not doing anything with him because it's not me riding.
I don't think he would be happy to be retired. He likes going out. He has been beating Billy to the gate and rushes through given half a chance. So if he's that enthusiastic I'm happy for him to do a bit of work.
I think you need to wait until you have the scan done then rediscuss with the vet. Although you basically know the options and only you can way up how Ben seems in himself.
 
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chunky monkey said:
I have been in the same boat as you due to the back issues. Exactly the same questions. Continue to ride and Bute (well danilion), retire or PTS.
Mine is not bad enough to PTS.
Vets have said don't retire as he will lose all the muscling he currently has and therefore be worse off quicker. I said how was it fair if I'm causing his back to swell for me to ride. They obviously suggested to continue riding on danilion. I was told any more than two a day long term and it will cause severe liver damage so best to PTS.
Vet advised that i don't have to Bute everyday. But use my discretion. If I know I'm going to work him. Bute perhaps the day before or in the morning before I ride and when I come back.
I'm lucky as well that I found two light weight riders who can ride him and due to there weight the back doesn't swell. They can ride him for an hour at a time for several days with no issues. In the last few months since his back went through a bad patch in December. I have made a decision to limit my rides on him. I've only ridden for 10 minutes about 4 times and done a couple of drives.
I hate not being able to ride him. I feel like I'm not doing anything with him because it's not me riding.
I don't think he would be happy to be retired. He likes going out. He has been beating Billy to the gate and rushes through given half a chance. So if he's that enthusiastic I'm happy for him to do a bit of work.
I think you need to wait until you have the scan done then rediscuss with the vet. Although you basically know the options and only you can way up how Ben seems in himself.
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The vet was saying pretty much the same thing about adapting the dose depending on how he feels but it is all hypothetical at the moment until the results of the bone scan. He wants him on 3 per day until he goes in because we basically don't know what is wrong with him, but assuming that arthritis is the root cause, we will be aiming for 1.5 per day depending on how he feels. I know that 3 per day seems a big dose, but he is a 16.1hh shire x who is very heavily built. He needs double the dosage of all the drugs he has been given so far. The normal level of sedation doesn't even touch him.

I think Ben would hate to be retired. He enjoys his trips out and we always have so much fun together. I just need to find out what is wrong with him first!
 
I can’t survive without pain medication pretty much every day, but I’m not ready to be
Mary Poppins said:
That looks interesting. Do you have it prescribed by the vet in some medicated form, or can you just buy it over the counter? It must be pretty strong to be a banned substance in dressage competitions.
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I buy the liquid form, you can get it pretty much anywhere that sells feed, or amazon, eBay etc. I don’t remember which make mine is but will have a look later.
 
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Back in the 1970's I had a farm pony called Mr Wonderful. He would suffer from laminitis most summers and, looking back, he could've been managed much better but I was a child, I did not live there (boarding school or with my mother) so it was only when I stayed at my other parent's that I got to ride Mr Wonderful. I never made any decisions.

Mr Wonderful was very stiff in his later years and the vet prescribed a sachet of bute 1/2 an hour before I rode him. It worked. He went along fine just like that for many years being given bute 1/2 an hour before I rode him. And when I was there - I would go out every day, spend every minute with him and never let him out of my sight. One summer I lived at the farm for the whole school holidays and we had the best time together. Bute, then ride.

Mr Wonderful lived to a ripe old age on this regime and it worked perfectly. So, yes, back in the 1970's you could do this and it worked fine.
 
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@Mary Poppins if you want to know more about Devils Claw have a look on my friend Catherine's website www.naturallyanimals.co.uk. She sells the James Hart liquids which are very pure - the Global Herbs etc ones tend to be watered down with other additives. It is strong stuff and she often suggests a liver supplement for horses that are on it long term. If you'd like to call her for a chat about non-medical options let me know and I'll put you in touch: she is encyclopaedically knowledgeable.
 
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Frances144 said:
Back in the 1970's I had a farm pony called Mr Wonderful. He would suffer from laminitis most summers and, looking back, he could've been managed much better but I was a child, I did not live there (boarding school or with my mother) so it was only when I stayed at my other parent's that I got to ride Mr Wonderful. I never made any decisions.

Mr Wonderful was very stiff in his later years and the vet prescribed a sachet of bute 1/2 an hour before I rode him. It worked. He went along fine just like that for many years being given bute 1/2 an hour before I rode him. And when I was there - I would go out every day, spend every minute with him and never let him out of my sight. One summer I lived at the farm for the whole school holidays and we had the best time together. Bute, then ride.

Mr Wonderful lived to a ripe old age on this regime and it worked perfectly. So, yes, back in the 1970's you could do this and it worked fine.
Click to expand...

Mr Wonderful sounds amazing.
 
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We all though Chanter would not retire well he is big and bolshy loved his work and was and is too full of himself. But hey guess what he took to it like a pig in mud.

Chanter was on four a day at one point over winter he is 16.1 and an ID/TB so a good size. When he went to get his teeth out they had trouble sedating him to the point he had to stay over night in case he coliced when he came round.

All you can do test and adjust.
 
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We used equine America Devils claw in place of bute for Bonnie. I did not want her on bute long term and neither did the vets at the time. Have you considered Hack Up and putting him on a bespoke supplement? And how about learning how to stretch/massage him yourself? All this will keep him happy and moving. I swear by my arc equine unit, uses micro current technology and it's had a positive impact on Kez. I'm a huge fan of magnet products and regularly use wraps and back pad on all my three.
 
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