Where to start sorting out Bens leading issues

Mary Poppins

Mary Poppins

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Oct 10, 2004
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One of my new year resolutions is to get Ben to lead properly. I was waiting until I found a good time to tackle it, and as my confidence on him ridden wise is at an all time high, my skills as a rider as getting better with each lesson so I feel that it's time to sort this out too.

The problem is that I basically have to drag him along to get anywhere. When I catch him in the field, he won't move until I turn him in a circle and he stops several times on the way in. It doesn't matter if we are in the field or the yard, he is always stopping.

When I turn him out, he stops at least 5 times on the way to the field. As we leave his indoor stable block, he stops to have a good look round and I often end up backing him up, or turning him around to get his legs moving. He is never in a rush to go anywhere and just seems to like to stop and stand still.

When I take him from the stable to the school (about 20m) he always stops in one particular place to look round, and I can't get him to walk straight into the school.

He doesn't drag me anywhere, he doesn't go for grass, he just likes to stop! I would love to do some in-hand showing with him, but there is no way that we could do this with his leading as it is. I would also like to take him in-hand over the riding school, but this means crossing a busy road and I'm scared that he will just plant himself in the middle of it.

How can I start to sort this out? I have tried to walk assertively, use my body language to be the 'leader' and not turn around to block him, and while this results in a slight improvement, he still stops randomly when he feels like it.

Any ideas?
 
Buy a dually and do some groundwork in it.

They are great. I have a very nappy haffy, (who also drags) and he is so so much easier to lead in this. You can teach them to keep up with your shoulder, when they stop they get pressure on the nose which releases as soon as they step forward. Honestly can't recommend dually enough, best 45 pounds I've ever spent
 
I think that's a good suggestion, and probably the simplest way of going about it. It is important that you get good with timing the release to coincide with any thought of going forwards - that way it's fair to him and you'll get him nice and light on the line. Don't just lead in it though, work on getting him responding to small asks in the school or somewhere similar too. If you're on the right track it should only normally need to be a temporary measure and he'll learn to respond nicely in a headcollar too.
 
Very good point Yann, after doing groudwork in the dually for a little while and leading in it my boy is now so improved I use a regular headcollar most the time
 
I second Ale and Yann. I got one for Chanter when I first had him as he was a really handful.

Now he is dream I still use it but as a normal head coller and for loading where he still can have his moments.

Ginger did the same but normally just once leaving the field. One day I had had enough and sent him back and released back and released then foward don't have any issues now.You don't need to be tough or rough just mean it when when you do. I don't speak at all and only ask for a stride or two I don't do the sending them back miles just enough to move his feet.

good luck
 
The other really effective thing to get them moving if they're stuck is to take the leadrope to the side and ask them to step across towards you. With a little practice you can convert the side step into forwards smoothly and it also becomes a habit with them.

Make sure you're actually leading with no pressure on the line too, as this muddies the water. Hold the line in your outside hand and carry it loosely with your inside hand ready to bring into play as soon as you need to, but with the 'smile in the line'. Leading really needs to be an on / off thing, whenever the horse is with you and where you want them then you should be leaving well alone :)
 
I use the old fashioned method.

Stand at the shoulder (LH side) holding the lead rope near the head collar in the right hand and the loose bit in the left.

Say, 'walk on' pushing the right hand forward slightly. If no luck flick the end of the lead rope in the left hand round towards the quarters. If that doesn't work try flicking a schooling whip in the left hand towards the quarters or where you would use your leg if riding.
 
Tina2011 said:
I use the old fashioned method.

Stand at the shoulder (LH side) holding the lead rope near the head collar in the right hand and the loose bit in the left.

Say, 'walk on' pushing the right hand forward slightly. If no luck flick the end of the lead rope in the left hand round towards the quarters. If that doesn't work try flicking a schooling whip in the left hand towards the quarters or where you would use your leg if riding.
Click to expand...

I tried this on my haffy once when he was napping and he tanked off! I also tried the move him sideways and that would work but would take ages, and he never stopped trying it on, now since I've used the dually he very rarely naps leading and if he does pressure on the regular headcollar is normally enough to get him moving.

Depends on your horse to what works :)
 
If you don't want to use a dually, my RI showed me a method to get Ziggy going when he decides it's too much trouble.

When he stops, say "Walk on" and give the cue in the headcollar. Use a schooling whip to tap tap tap on his cannon bone. Not hard, just niggling. Stop the moment he moves forward.

It takes a long time to work but once it starts working it's very effective.
 
Tom Dorrance has an excellent piece in his very old fashioned NH book about leading.

Leading to him is one of the most important aspects of ground work, and a lot of horses have never been taught to lead.

He uses quite some pressure to get them to lead, but no hitting and no nagging which is where I think a lot of people go wrong, they constantly nag at the horse so it just gets used to being towed along.

Ben needs to hit the end of the lead rope with you walking at a normal pace and get going. I doubt very much you will achieve this result in a normal head collar - he needs to learn to give to the pressure of the halter. A fellow livery has a Welsh Sec D who is just a nightmare to lead. I absolutely hate turning him out at the top of the hill. Drag would be a better word for it, and I am sure he is just so used to being towed, it doesn't occur to him to do anything else.

It does work. Tobes will trot up beside me now if I just raise my lead rope hand and cluck to him.

Will try to take Tom Dorrance book to work tomorrow and scan the section and post it for you.
 
Thank you everyone, its food for thought. However I'm not keen to use a dually and I'm a little surprised that it is so strongly recommended. I don't know how to use one for a start, and I also don't think that it is fair to automatically blame him for leading incorrectly before I eliminate myself as the problem.

Ben has taught me that if I ask him to do something correctly, he responds perfectly. Although he is only 9, he is a complete schoolmaster in that if I press the right buttons he responds. If I do it wrong, so does he. When I think about it, I'm not really sure of the correct way to lead a horse. I generally walk and expect the horse to walk as well. But how is Ben supposed to know that I want him to come with me?

I have heard that duallys can cause considerable pain for the horse in the wrong hands. There must be a better way to get him to lead properly. What about body language, my aids to ask him to walk forward, the positioning of my body in relation to his etc.? There must be exercises on the ground which I could do without the dually which would help?

He doesn't respond to a flicking of the leadrope, or a tickle with the whip. I'm sure that if I belted him with it then he would move forward, but that isn't something that I want to do. If someone pushes his bum then he will move forwards!
 
Mary Poppins said:
Thank you everyone, its food for thought. However I'm not keen to use a dually and I'm a little surprised that it is so strongly recommended. I don't know how to use one for a start, and I also don't think that it is fair to automatically blame him for leading incorrectly before I eliminate myself as the problem.

Ben has taught me that if I ask him to do something correctly, he responds perfectly. Although he is only 9, he is a complete schoolmaster in that if I press the right buttons he responds. If I do it wrong, so does he. When I think about it, I'm not really sure of the correct way to lead a horse. I generally walk and expect the horse to walk as well. But how is Ben supposed to know that I want him to come with me?

I have heard that duallys can cause considerable pain for the horse in the wrong hands. There must be a better way to get him to lead properly. What about body language, my aids to ask him to walk forward, the positioning of my body in relation to his etc.? There must be exercises on the ground which I could do without the dually which would help?

He doesn't respond to a flicking of the leadrope, or a tickle with the whip. I'm sure that if I belted him with it then he would move forward, but that isn't something that I want to do. If someone pushes his bum then he will move forwards!
Click to expand...



I'm reading this thread with interest MP, because I sometimes have similar issues with leading Flipo. If we have purpose and he's playing ball, he'll go wherever I want. Walking from the gate of our field to the mounting block...is another thing altogether - but most of this is down to my desire not to pull on his mouth when he's got the bit in his mouth. I agree with you in that a lot of it is probably our fault - how we are doing things. I think Flipo did lead really well when I got him, but I've ruined him, poor thing!
I don't think others were suggesting he is in the wrong, just that this was the best way to sort no matter who caused the problem? I've tried the dually, but not happy with my use of it so found a rope halter more helpful. I don't have any great ideas for solutions, but you raised an interesting point that is maybe ot. Is it that our horses don't respond correctly because they are schoolmasters? Flipo tells me when I'm doing something wrong - but he was as green as the grass when I got him. I think its maybe more that they are just finely tuned at speaking horse. We, on the other hand, haven't got that language down pat yet lol! Good luck with the leading. I can picture exactly the same situation you're having with Ben, as I have with Flip. Must be a cob/heavy thang!!
 
I hate pulling on Ben's mouth as well, leading in a headcollar is much easier.

When I lead in his headcollar, I get him to move by moving his feet around. I sometimes back him up, make him move circles etc. etc. This works but it's exhausting moving a 16hh shire horse around like that (esp. if he is in the bottom field), and the thing is that he never seems to remember it the next time!!

If I stop and turn to look at him, he plants himself even more. If I walk with purpose and don't give him a backward glance, he will sometimes follow without stopping.

He gets very distracted walking past people who sometimes give him treats. The treating from other people drives me crazy, but I don't want to be known as crazy lady who forbids anyone from giving Ben a carrot. But, this doesn't help as Ben loves his food and he gets so little of it.

When I bought him they told me that he takes ages to walk in from the field. I thought that this meant that he walks slowly, but I think that he has always had the stopping habit.
 
Its not blaming the horse to use a dually, simply teaching them that if they don't keep up with you they will get pressure on their nose until they step forward. Sorry I don't mind you not wanting to use one, your horse after all but just think that was a bit of a weird thing to say when you asked for suggestions and it sounds like you have tried quite a lot of options already.
 
This is very interesting to me as well, thanks for raising the issue MP.

Rusty is quite the schoolmaster as well, so I know our problems with leading are my fault. He does the planting thing quite well - not stopping to eat - just stops!

I will re-read this thread and try to work on this leading issue!
 
I personally wouldn't have the concerns you raise about the dually - I am sure you are empathetic with Ben - any headcollar can cause damage and I would rather a short term fix to resolve long term issues than remaining at the tugging lead rope point as this can be as bad.

I would work with him - on in hand walks - halt walk trot and associating voice cues to each transition. I do it as a walk rather than from field as I use treats for a quick response as a reward - I won't carry treats in the field so I can't do the training to and from field. I also don't want them expecting treats on a daily activity.

Although occasionally madam will try her luck both in hand and under saddle madam will shift gears on voice command.

As for body language, I never turn to face pony when he plants, if necessary I take a step back and use lead rope behind me and if this doesn't work I walk into the horses personal space to turn a circle - still no eye contact - it is much easier to move a horse by going into them than turning them around you.
 
Solo harness horse loading easy loader.
I havnt used this but you mention Ben moves if someone pushes his bottom :) this is like a harness that you attatch and it means the solo person leading can stay at the horses head but apply pressure around the bottom,sorry I can't do links I am useless,type it into eBay on buy it now section.its more to help with loading but no reason you couldn't use it to help with leading using bottom pressure.
As I say havnt tried but thought you might be interested.
 
I quite understand you not wanting to use artificial aids. I do use an NH halter, which is quite strong if the horse pulls back, but Ziggy makes it clear that he doesn't give a fig for it if I take him for a walk - he can ignore it if he wants to.

I notice an enormous difference in Ziggy's leading depending on my sense of purpose. We went out for a lane & herbs walk the other day and he stopped, dawdled, ate (which was the point TBH) and generally did exactly what he wanted, pretty much ignoring me unless I flicked him with the halter rope.

However, when a car came down the lane and I had to get him to a lay by, I said, "Come on Ziggy," and he stopped eating and trotted by my shoulder without any hesitation at all. I think it is all to do with sense of purpose and engagement of my core - he seems to sense whether I really mean it or not. What I'm not sure is how you can communicate that to Ben :frown:
 
I had the same reaction about using dually with Joy to overcome our loading issues. To me, upping to a stronger headcollar comes down the line if I can't do it another way. As it was, I didn't need the dually because I just needed Joy to understand that it wasn't going to be so awful and increasing pressure would just put her on edge and less relaxed, not more as was my intention.

My immediate approach is to win heart and mind and learn to read her, work out what my response should be and time it as well as I can.

Joy is very easily distracted so in our case, my approach is to keep her focussed on me if needed. For us that means having a bit of a play so she's watching me as she doesn't know what I'll do next! I mix it up a bit, don't walk in a straight line, don't just walk at the same pace. Its the same thing as when schooling (in my case on a hack). If I'm not happy with the pace offered of her concentration then I'll ask for lateral changes of direction, changes of gait and changes of pace within a gait.

Its great fun for us both and great for my fitness too!
 
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