which bit?

H & Bailey

H & Bailey

New Member
Nov 12, 2001
1,522
0
0
53
north east england
www.freewebs.com
I know I have asked before but no one seems to give any sort of definate answer.
I really need help on which bit i should try next...i have persevered with the bit bailey has and he is getting schooled but he still does need something a bit stronger....
He is ridden in a fulmer (full cheek loose ring snaffle) with the side loops.He is strong with his head and need the fulmer for steering as if he is in a snaffle and he sees something he sets his head and neck and he totally ignores you even using leg and stick .with the fulmer he is strong but you can get his head round.
At the moment we are getting better with canter but he now thinks its great not to stop!Ive put him back into his standing martingale as he will stick his head right up to evade and go.
Now he cant do this I just seems like I have no brakes or limited stopping.
He has been joggy and pully today as i rode out on my own .He was joggy so i was checking him back,the more you check him the more he trys to lean..normally I let the reins looser/lighten and push him on to the bit so he cant lean but as soon as i was relaxing a touch on the reins he was trying to jog off again.
We had a canter but he decided to gallop,I got him back to canter but he had set himself and i couldnt check himback more.
I was glad my sister hadnt took him out as i think he would have just took off with her and scared her stupid.
I need something stronger that I can use with the standing martingale.....
i have the chance if a bubble bit/3 ring snaffle.....
i have a ported kimblewick(does it need the hooks and chain?)
i also have a straight pelham.
i could buy something else like a full cheek french link but would there be much difference between that and a fulmer?
help i need brakes!!!!!!!!!
i havent tried anything else yet as i didnt want to go too 'severe' until I got a bit of feedback on which bit is 'next up the line? ie is the 3 ring snaffle less severe than a kimblewick?:(
 
Which bits have you tried so far? I would be tempted to try either a pelham with two reins, or the 3 ring continental gag, also with two reins.
 
Unless I'm mistaken I think you can use any bit with the standing martingale.

If you need brakes full stop dutch gag and flash noseband are effective, it has a lowering effect and the flash will prevent mouth opening which is an evasion that will reduce the effectiveness of any bit. The pelham is good for brakes and softening, but used too strongly a lot of horses drop behind it. It works perfectly well with roundings out hacking.

You may already have done so but it might be worth looking at what and how much you're feeding him if he's being daft. Is he getting plenty of turnout? If he isn't this will also tend to make him stronger. And of course there's the pat answer about better schooling;)
 
My horse can also get strong and on the advice of my instructor, I ride him out in a Cheltenham Gag with a running Martingale (because he will chuck his head up to avoid the bit) and a flash (cos he will open his mouth to avoid). This bit lifts the head and doesn't apply significant poll pressure. The 3 ring continental applies poll pressure which is fine if he only tends to chucks his head up to go, but you said he also leans. You really need to figure out in detail what he is doing in order to choose the right bit. Heather at the bit bank will advise - although her advice to me was different to that of my instructor, I went with my instructor and it works for me. My horse tends to take hold, poke his nose and go. I worried that this combination was too strong, but he seems happy and I'm happy as it only comes into play if he pulls. A friend whose mare just tends to lean and go also finds the Cheltenham Gag works for her. Neither of us school in it though, what you are using now, or the french link you fancy may be fine for schooling.

Where abouts are you in the North East? I'm at Chester le Street
 
how about a change of noseband rather than a change of bit? you could try a flash and/or a martingale. if the fulmer suits him and you are happy in it most of the time, then maybe something like this would do the trick easier than a change of bit.
 
first question...showjumper..I have tried him in the pelham with 2 reins.that was in the summer when he was getting stronger but he hated it .the slightest touch on the curb made him lift his head and go to rear.
I opted to carry on schooling and he was strong but i could manage him when alone,in company he gets boshy and doesnt listen to me and tries to show off all the time(he is only5 so likes to show off a bit),and is joggy and tries to lean if checked back.
next.. Yann, he is turned out 24/7 and gets dengi hi fi (1 litre scoop,level)and a smidgen of cool mix ,hay
stella 2...im in a small village on the road to whitby?Near middlesbrough-you must of heard of Boro!
I stuck bailey back into his standing martingale so he cant get his head up too high and he knows this so he hasnt been to bad throwing his head about.When he did have a flash on it was because he did open his mouth but he has stopped that,when he was ignoring me today i was looking at him and he wasnt opening his mouth? :rolleyes:
Es- i could try the flash again and see if it makes a difference?tHe does seem ok in the fulmer most of the time but as my sister is riding either horse( ie Rose or Bailey) at the moment I want to be able to let her out on Bailey alone knowing she can stop him,as i dont think she would have been able today.
;)
p.s I need to sort him as Im supposed to riding out with a new broken horse to help it get used to traffic(bailey is bombproof),and dont want him to be a prat with no Brakes!
 
Last edited:
Thank you for this post, H - as Murphy gets fitter I am noticing the same problem with him! He rides in a full cheek snaffle, similar to a fulmer but with straight side bars, like Bailey he needs help with steering! (he sounds very similar to Murph - on his own, good as gold, in company, a total show off!)

If I could hijack for just a minute...

He's fine in the school, stops with just the weight/seat aids and barely a squeeze on the rein, but out... he's a very determined walker and will plod on apace regardless of what's in front of him - when this is a road to cross/turn into, it's no laughing matter - thankfully traffic was sparse yesterday! My friend noticed he was opening his mouth to evade the bit when I was trying to stop him to let her in front (her horse = sensible, realises that you can't play chicken with cars :rolleyes: ) and has suggested using a flash for when he's out - I'm going to try this next week, as his thorogood bridle came with a flash converter, even though I'm not happy about having to use it, given all the negative posts about them - but we shall see what happens. He doesn't put his head up, quite the reverse, so I don't think a martingale would do him any good.

Yann, you said better schooling - such as? Any tips for when we're out, given that he's very good about stopping in the school?

Cathy:D
 
It was a tongue in cheek comment, both here and elsewhere posts about bits and stopping usually get at least one response along the lines of "well get your horse schooled better".

It's all very well but not everybody has the facilities, expertise or time to do it. Should you stop hacking out for the winter because you need more than a snaffle? I don't think so. There's no point being sniffy about the tack you use if you and your horse end up under a lorry because they get giddy:rolleyes:
 
Thank you, Yann, I think...;)

As I said, I fully intend to to use the flash noseband when I'm out, precisely for that reason! If anyone's interested I will report back and let you know next week if it works - providing I haven't gone under a lorry by then...;) :D
 
LOL it's not very often that I manage to mystify anybody:D

I'll be interested to hear how you get on, nothing wrong with using any item of tack if it's used with discretion and for a specific purpose. Very different to the 'because everyone else is / because we always have' attitude:)
 
What about bridging the reins? If he is simply setting himself against you you could try that as in effect they are only pulling against themselves. If you need me to explain more I can. I used to ride very very strong forward going racehorses in a plain snaffle and thats a technique I was taught there.
 
Echo Ditz - I also used to ride big National Hunt racehorses in just a loose ring, hollow mouth snaffle & bridging reins definitely works & is easy to get the hang of!
 
Hi
Have you had his teeth and back/saddle checked recently? A problem that way can cause behaviour problems. Also echo the feed point. I don't tend to work on the strength of a bit, I tend to base my thoughts on is hte horse comfortable. A snaffle in hte wrong hands is a horrible bit of kit! I find my two go very nicely and will stop in their pelhams. Conn hates a martingale, she leans on it and throws her head around something awful. For sheer brakes and a single rein I would recommend a lowported kimblewick. However it depends on you arnd your horse. Schooling is great in the long term but I agree with Yann. No point in plannng to be beautifully schooled by April if the horse is losing hte plot and bored sick on the school in November so when you go hacking for variety he dumps you both under a bus!
good luck
 
In response to H & Bailey's earlier query about the pelham and the horse hating the curb action, was this with a chain? Rio didn't like the feel of a chain at all (I'm not surprised as she isn't strong and I wasn't using it for brakes) but is happy as anything with an elastic curb. The other thing is to make sure it isn't over tight and that the slightest action on the curb rein doesn't bring it strongly into play.

Good point about the tack and teeth too, if he's uncomfortable somewhere it won't help at all and may be contributing to his not listening. Doesn't sound like you're overfeeding though.
 
Ditz, would you mind very much explaining about bridging the reins? Thank you!:D

(I thought I knew what bridging was but I must be thinking of something else as I can't see how what I'm thinking of would help stop a horse...d'oh!)
 
Bridging the reins

Right I am back. This is harder to describe than I thought actually and I am sat here with a dressing gown cord trying to simulate it so here goes...

Take the rein up as normal and get the shortness that you require. Next hold it in the palm of your hand (ie no little finger on the outside. Now you know the 'spare' length you have hanging down? With your right thumb hold the spare bit on the left hand side. Now with your left thumb take the spare bit on the right hand side. Move it around a little until you get equal 'spare' in both hands and you will have the 'spare' in a bridge between your hands. When riding hold this securely and firmly down against your horses withers or maybe even lower if you have longer reins. As you will probably be in the forward position anyway you can use your weight to push down with your hands whilst at the same time lowering the weight into your heels. This alone has a slowing effect but the whole idea behind bridging is that if the horse pulls he will only be pulling against himself and wont be able to unbalance you.

As for slowing down etc you will find that you have your knuckles in a fist against the horse, as well as the usual aids to slowing (which in fairness most of them are ignoring if you need to bridge the reins!), you simply rotate your wrist outwards.

Hope that explains it, I'll put the dressing gown cord away now.
 
lovecat ...you will probably find that your horse will be better with the flash.I did ride Bailey in a flash when I got him as he used to open his mouth,but he doesnt seem to be doing that now..i'll have to borrow a flash to try as Rose has baileys flash at the moment...although he was strong with a flash on so i dont have much hope of him being much better with it on.
His teeth have been checked and his tack is fine...he is just as bad if bareback in fact worse as he runs off and dips his shoulder to try and ditch you or sticks his head up to go.
He is very clever and has learned a few tricks to do what he wants...the gypsys i got him off were riding in a headcollar with a rope through his mouth as a bit and were really hauling on him.
you can imagine how sore that must have been.so he has learned to stick his head up and open his mouth or pull forward and get hold and lean,dip shoulder etc.
I have ridden alot of horses and ponies and he is stronger than anything im used to.i have ridden racehorses and know how to bridge my riens which i did when he galloped off,I did get him back to canter by bridging,I had tight hold but he wasnt slowing and i didnt want to really haul on his mouth,I slowed him by heading him up a bank and he got tired..he he he. Im used to riding on the leg and weight with not much rein which is how Im training him.( with his past i want him not to fight the bit and have/had got him from a standing martingale and flash to normal noseband and running martingale)
He was going really nicely this summer on the bit and accepting me and the aids nicely.i dont want to be pulling on his mouth or fighting him as it will undo all the work Ive done.Even if its just for the winter Id rather up the bit so i have a light control and can continue on the same route.
Mossy....I have a ported kimblewick....it didnt come with a chain...but i have one..is it needed?
I would try the pelham again but my sister hasnt had any experience 2 reins and Im worried she would be too heavy on the curb or get muddled up.I did try it with the chain on but very loosely....just to answer Yann....
:D :D just a quick thanks to everyone repliying so far...I hate it when i get the ...cop out answer of 'do more schooling'.
As I do try and school as much as possible weather and field conditions allowing,but as he is young i keep it short and interesting and tend to hack but concentrate on yeilding etc whilst we are out....
 
Have you tried/considered a bitless bridle? Might work if he has a sore mouth due to his past.
 
newrider.com
Top Bottom