which bit?

You could, but unless you go for a mechanical hackamore a lot of the bitless bridles available are quite mild in action and a strong horse would probably run through them. Could be worth a try though in case it's something to do with his past history that makes him uncomfotable with a bit? In a safe area of course...

You could use roundings with the Pelham, yes you lose the differential action but the roundings mean you can't overuse the curb. They mean that any idiot can ride with one (such as me:o )
 
Could you try a pelham with roundings? I use the same bit as you but have also had the same problems which are still ongoing. I think as much as anything its a winter thing. Whenever I know I want to do a little fast work I use the pelham which works for me simply, I think, because he doesnt seem able to lean on it (mullen mouth with elastic curb - just about the mildest combination) and seems to respect it more. Nor does he open his mouth to evade as he does with the french link where he needs a flash.

With the pelham I use 2 reins but have also used roundings and for normal hacking roundings is just fine and less fiddly.

When I am just having a trot around the block tough I use the french link as my horse eventually gets wise to things!

I know you dont want to talk about schooling but if your like me and dont have the facilities to school during the winter you'd be surprised how quick they forget some of the aids so it's a good idea just to spend the first 15 mins of your hack doing lots of transitions so he remembers what the brakes feel like!
 
thanks again.I tried him yesterday in the kimblewick without the chain as it doesnt have hooks etc on it so i will have to dismantle my pelham to fix it.He wasnt joggy or go-ey though but placid and his normal self so the brakes didnt come into issue.What I didnt like though was that his steering etc IS affected by not having the sides like the fulmer.
I am going to try and borrow a flash and see if i can make do with the fulmer with flash...if not try the kimblewick or pelham properly.
I did think along the lines of a bitless bridle and did suggest it to the tack shop when i first got him but they laughed at me as if i was an idiot!
If i could borrow one Id definately give it a try and see what he would do.i can ride him round the field with a headcollar with lead ropes on so you never know. :D
Ditz...I have a field I can school in but if the weathers bad it gets boggy but i usually ride round doing circles etc for at least 5 mins before i go out to warm up and when Im out I do concentrate on using legs and transitions..granted when my sister rides she probably just sits there,but she has only ridden him out twice so its not her un- doing my work. More just him going out in the cold and being seperated from his new girlfriend!;)
 
Re. the bitless, if you get good results with a headcollar then it's definitely worth a try, that's how we got started with the idea of using one.

Am I right in thinking steering might be better in a pelham as the cheeks are quite tall?
 
I'd just like to say.... how refeshing it is to find a message board that doesn't hang those who need or want to use stronger bits and or extra training aids.

I myself have to say that I ride my horse (Lilly a 15.2hh TB) that is very fizzy, very strong and is very much the loon!

I have regular lessons (once a week) and have owned Lilly for about 9 months. I ride her in a continental gag, a running martingale and flash noseband. This is by far the best combination for her as it means that I can control her with subtle aids and do not need to yank her in the mouth or need to use stronger or harsher aids that would simply upset Lilly as I'm so hung up with using a snaffle.

I'm sorry for the rambling on... but I did want to say how nice it is to have such 'open minded' responses!
 
I can only agree with you there, I'm sure that if those sanctimonious types suddenly started getting bombed off with in dangerous situations by otherwise well behaved but excitable horses they'd soon change their tune.

None of us have perfect horses or are perfect horsepeople, we all have to get on with it in the real world and do the best we can with what we have, and most importantly be safe doing it:)
 
Thank you Yann, I could not agree with you more.

Lilly although not dagerous or nasty in any way is very exciteable, strong and generally mad :D is ok to ride with the tack at the moment. I generally feel safe on her, even when she is pratting about, and I participate in PC activities and shows as well as hacking and general comprting.

It realy annoys me when I get comments like 'you'll ruin a perfectly good horse using tack like that' or 'I bet you're only using it as it's fashionable' when they themselves ride in a snaffle but are yanking the reins, pulling on the horses mouth and booting it in the sides with spurs on :rolleyes:

Yes, I use a harsher bit, but I'm aware of how severe it is and use it with the upmost respect for it strength. Did that make any sense what so ever?

Lilly is happy in her tack, if I thought for a moment she wasn't I would change it and look for better altrenatives.

Ideally in a perfercct word I'd love to ride her in a snaffle and cavesson noseband - but at the moment that's just not possible. We'd both be dead by now! I don't know if it ever will happen or not, I'd like to think so....

The point I'm trying to make is, although it may not be a perfect solution, it's the safest one for us both and it makes such a nice change to come on a board with other's that seem to realise that to!

Sheena X
 
Time to trot out the old chestnut about a bit only being as severe as the hands that use it:)

I do know what you mean, whilst my current horse is a poppet and can be hacked out quite safely in a heacollar, the horse I used to share was a different story whilst he had no turnout. He was hacked out in similar tack to yours, and when we first cantered I found out why and was glad of it. In every other way he was a sweetie, well schooled and sensible, just had that fiery streak.
 
Just an update..I put Bailey back into the fulmer but added a flash and standing martingale.
Considering he had been out this week thought he would be good....oh no he was being a pig again and we were with rose this time.
He was determined to go sideways and stick his head up..hmm that didnt work he thought so was trying to grab?? the bit but couldnt because of the flash!
Definately had more control but had to keep 'hold' of him still ,we didnt try a canter as it was too muddy where we went but think i would have been able to stop but would have had a fight still.
Must be the welshie in him or the sugar beet:D
 
tried him again in the kimblewick but because ive been usinga cavasson noseband he was opening his mouth making the bit bang on his back teeth.
Ive been out today and tried the kimblewick with the flash..not sure if your supposed too?He was much better and had control but he does throw his head up if i touch the reins to check him..does this mean the bit is too strong?saying that when i asked him to canter by pushing him forwards onto the bit and collecting he was brilliant .we havent had a collected type canter.
Im saying this as he has only just learnt to canter and I havent collected him as he tended just to trot again.
the only thing is I dodnt know if i should let my sister ride him in the kimblewick as he only needed a slight touch to cause a head reaction or to let her ride in the fulmer and have not much brakes?
Is there something in between?that anyone has tried?
 
how about a hanging cheek snaffle? then you've got a bit of poll action, but no curb - that's probably what the head tossing was objecting to.

you shouldn't really use the flash with a curb bit as the flash strap goes where the curb chain does, so it is a lot on the curb groove.
 
Are you using an elastic or metal curb? That could be an alternative, it's much less 'on / off' with the elastic but still quite effective. Or try taking the curb off altogether and see if you still have control? That would more or less give you a hanging cheek snaffle anyway.
 
Sorry to crash another persons thread here but I rode yesterday in a pelham with 2 reins and I just dont get how to activate the curb rein alone. Can anyone shed any light?
 
Thanks for that smidge of knowledge(did put another word but it ** it out?) yann ..i was figuring to take off the curb(which is metal) and thought it would be like a hanging cheek?
Well it has a different mouth piece ..which might be helping..Gosh Id love a floodlit indoor school....id be out riding every night!
im sure if I can do positive schooling once a week it would make a difference..but i need to do it on both horses!
Maybe having 2 horses is going to be too much.....hope not as i couldnt divide them!If i could squash them into One it would be fantastic!
Just wondering if its me??Im so used to riding with light contact he has learned to get away with me?????Should i ride more with a contact rather than light to almost none.If you have too much contact he leans so much his head gets nearly on the floor....observation i had when my sister rode him for the first time.
Im so glad you lot help out as i have a non horsey hubby and only 1(knowlegeable) horsey friend who isnt that interested!
 
An interesting exercise is to take the bit off the bridle, stick your wrist through between the curb and the bit and then pivot the bit on your arm, it's quite severe with a metal chain! If you then try it with an elastic curb you can certainly feel the difference.

As to the amount of contact it depends what you're doing. No horse likes to be ridden in a strong contact all the time, especially out hacking, but there again not all horses will be comfortable with washing lines. I don't think there's an easy answer to that one, though I wouldn't have thought that would cause a problem in itself.

Ditz, you're not the only one who finds it hard:D Firstly you need two pairs of thin reins or there's too much in your hands, normal rubber covered reins are useless. The idea is as I understand it that you hold your fingers slightly open and close up your ring fingers to activate the curb. The hardest thing though is getting the rein length just right so it all works, I found it was all or nothing half the time and kept having to fiddle with the rein length. Like wresting with a handful of snakes:rolleyes: At least with roundings you can't overdo the curb action, and I don't have to do a major re tack when daughter and I swap over in a lesson. Rio's happy as we are so that's fine by me.
 
Yes must admit Yann that half the time the curb rein hangs down like a washing line and the amount of contact I have on it depends on his head carriage obviously so I often gather it up to its correct length then look a couple of minutes later and its gone slack again. Leads me to think that its really not worth the while me trying to use 2 reins if the curb rein is never 'on' but you seem to get a lot of old school who insist that thats the proper way. Think I'll go back to roundings, to much faffing. Am waiting for a waterford to come through post as well so will hopefully be trying that before the weeks out (assuming miracle cure for back is in progress....).

Re major re-tack thing...know exactly what you mean, I'm so lazy I went out and bought another bridle 'cos I got sick of changing bits over!
 
Re. changing bits, that's where a Libby's competition bridle comes in handy, just clip and unclip:)

Took Rio's elastic curb off for this week's lesson to see what would happen, and it didn't make any difference - I think we'll carry on like that for now as she seems to have got the general idea now.
 
I don't know if this is correct but I was told by my saddler that you shouldn't ride a horse that leans in a curb chain. :confused:
 
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