Why do people not like parelli?
- Thread starter Henderz
- Start date
I think he't abit like marmite, either love him or hate him
I personally don't like him or his methods, but it's just a matter of taste. At the end of the day it's just a training method which can be used to get results from horses. It doesn't work with every horse and it doesn't work with ever owner. I also think that it is very over commercialised which is another reason why I don't like it.
If I were going to go down the NH route I think I would go more for monty roberts/kelly marks as I reckon that it is "purer" NH.
I personally don't like him or his methods, but it's just a matter of taste. At the end of the day it's just a training method which can be used to get results from horses. It doesn't work with every horse and it doesn't work with ever owner. I also think that it is very over commercialised which is another reason why I don't like it.
If I were going to go down the NH route I think I would go more for monty roberts/kelly marks as I reckon that it is "purer" NH.
I think most people find the over commercialised nature and the quite reductionist attitude of it (wth the left brain introvert etc.) annoying and the sheer cost.
I for one have no issue with some of the techniques nor the fact that he is obviously a savvy business man - if there is a market and demand, why not exploit it?-, but I hate the emotional blackmail style to his marketing and the 'trick' nature of some of his work. Such as making foals jump logs. Or 'backing' a horse in a few minutes with the help of join up. Personally I think a lot of that is down to the horse being 'flooded' with everything going on and just takes it and blows their nut later. I just don't like the thought of people being fleeced of their money simply because they have never had the oppurtunity to learn from experienced horsemen. Or paying over the odds for what is essentially very basic equipment - like the 12ft rope and carrot stick.
I actually quite like the fact that they are trying to make NH more accessible, but surely with such a comparitively large market, if they were truly trying to make it more accesible they could afford to lower the profit margin somewhat.
Annnnd (sorry, keep coming back to edit!) I really don't like the basic knowledge aspect. I know 'basic knowledge' is a debatable concept and some people do like having things spelt out, but really....marketing 'walking up hill to build muscle' is taking it too far. I don't deny it works, but psch. Just my thoughts
And I've never trusted a moustachioed man. What're you hiding? Fangs.
*Promise I will not add anymore!*
I for one have no issue with some of the techniques nor the fact that he is obviously a savvy business man - if there is a market and demand, why not exploit it?-, but I hate the emotional blackmail style to his marketing and the 'trick' nature of some of his work. Such as making foals jump logs. Or 'backing' a horse in a few minutes with the help of join up. Personally I think a lot of that is down to the horse being 'flooded' with everything going on and just takes it and blows their nut later. I just don't like the thought of people being fleeced of their money simply because they have never had the oppurtunity to learn from experienced horsemen. Or paying over the odds for what is essentially very basic equipment - like the 12ft rope and carrot stick.
I actually quite like the fact that they are trying to make NH more accessible, but surely with such a comparitively large market, if they were truly trying to make it more accesible they could afford to lower the profit margin somewhat.
Annnnd (sorry, keep coming back to edit!) I really don't like the basic knowledge aspect. I know 'basic knowledge' is a debatable concept and some people do like having things spelt out, but really....marketing 'walking up hill to build muscle' is taking it too far. I don't deny it works, but psch. Just my thoughts
And I've never trusted a moustachioed man. What're you hiding? Fangs.
*Promise I will not add anymore!*
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and i've never trusted a moustachioed man. What're you hiding? Fangs.
pmsl!!!! :d
I used to be quite open minded about it but went off it completely when I went to a demo a few years back. I asked one of the trainers a question about one of the games that I'd had problems with as I kept getting a response that I didn't want. I said I'd played some of the games on occasions. I was told that either I embraced the training wholeheartedly or I shouldn't bother at all and it was no wonder I got wrong responses if I didn't do Parelli, and only Parelli, on a daily basis.
On another occasion I emailed a few trainers about another problem. All came back with some really good ideas to try, but the Parelli people came back with "do level 1 - you can buy it off our website and it costs ££££££" (and I'm not sure it would have solved the problem in any case, as I know a lot of what's in level 1. Maybe if I'd questionned that, I'd have had to do level 2, then 3 etc etc).
As a result of both of those, I opted for not doing Parelli at all. If it's not something I can pick and choose and incorporate what I want and what works, I'm not interested. And I'm also not interested in paying money to trainers who look at me like I'm something they've trodden in. No other trainer, NH or otherwise, has ever come across to me in the way that they did, and if that's what they stand for, I'm not interested.
On another occasion I emailed a few trainers about another problem. All came back with some really good ideas to try, but the Parelli people came back with "do level 1 - you can buy it off our website and it costs ££££££" (and I'm not sure it would have solved the problem in any case, as I know a lot of what's in level 1. Maybe if I'd questionned that, I'd have had to do level 2, then 3 etc etc).
As a result of both of those, I opted for not doing Parelli at all. If it's not something I can pick and choose and incorporate what I want and what works, I'm not interested. And I'm also not interested in paying money to trainers who look at me like I'm something they've trodden in. No other trainer, NH or otherwise, has ever come across to me in the way that they did, and if that's what they stand for, I'm not interested.
I had a friend who was heavily into Parelli and it all sounded great when she explained it to me. I watched the videos and was amazed at the things they could do with the horses.
I have since learnt more about horse training and my own horse and I find his methods don't work for me or my mare.
I do believe he's come onto the scene where poeple have been riding a specific way for centuries (such as in dressage) and he's criticized the position of the rider and the way the horse is worked. I believe that the 'traditional' way of riding has worked for so long, why's it suddenly wrong?
I don't believe in makig your horse canter into moving trucks or getting 3 month old foals to jump logs. I think it's a case of looking soooo amazing, without actually looking at the danger or kind of damage these tricks can cause to a horse.
I do think he's lost the plot a little and is now in it to make money.
And one thing that irritates the sh!t out of me is that Parelli trained horses don't lunge! Every Parelli trained horse I've met is trained to face it's owner to wait for the next command, that you can't drive them out and onto a lungeing circle. Makes it difficult to get the extra steam out of hot horses before mounting them.
I have since learnt more about horse training and my own horse and I find his methods don't work for me or my mare.
I do believe he's come onto the scene where poeple have been riding a specific way for centuries (such as in dressage) and he's criticized the position of the rider and the way the horse is worked. I believe that the 'traditional' way of riding has worked for so long, why's it suddenly wrong?
I don't believe in makig your horse canter into moving trucks or getting 3 month old foals to jump logs. I think it's a case of looking soooo amazing, without actually looking at the danger or kind of damage these tricks can cause to a horse.
I do think he's lost the plot a little and is now in it to make money.
And one thing that irritates the sh!t out of me is that Parelli trained horses don't lunge! Every Parelli trained horse I've met is trained to face it's owner to wait for the next command, that you can't drive them out and onto a lungeing circle. Makes it difficult to get the extra steam out of hot horses before mounting them.
old_woman
a VERY senior citizen
If you are describing the event I think you are, it was actually TWO YEAR OLDS.
From the blurb
I'm not sure about the words 'greatest', 'skills', 'competition', 'entertaining', 'informative' and 'amazing'.
The horses at least might have been better served by the words 'most egotistical', 'ability to frce submission', 'abuse-fest', 'cruel', 'unusual' and 'abusive'.
I KNOW that in days gone by - and not so long gone by, either - there was a degree of urgency in breaking horses to do a job of work at as young an age as could be got away with. THESE DAYS HAVE PASSED in the Western world. What a pity this simple fact has passed these air-heads by.
PS no, I don't think a 'tache hides fangs, I think that in some (not all - my husband had a 'tache at one time!) cases it serves to disguise the little filters that elfen safety insist upon to ensure the sulphurous fires of hell burning in their heads do not contaminate the air that the rest of us breathe.
For me, it's the sheer cost of it. I believe they have a right to make a profit off their work, but I don't see WHY it has to be such a big profit.
Example:
- Stacy Westfall rope halter - $24.99
- Parelli rope halter - $39.93
- Stacy Westfall 15' line - $34.99
- Parelli 12' line - $66.60
- Stacy Westfall 24' line - $49.99
- Parelli 22' line - $93.22
- Stacy Westfall Stick and String (4' stick with 6' string) - $39.99
- Parelli Carrot Stick + Savvy String - $83.94
How they can charge these prices and still claim it's all about helping people with their horses is beyond me.
Example:
- Stacy Westfall rope halter - $24.99
- Parelli rope halter - $39.93
- Stacy Westfall 15' line - $34.99
- Parelli 12' line - $66.60
- Stacy Westfall 24' line - $49.99
- Parelli 22' line - $93.22
- Stacy Westfall Stick and String (4' stick with 6' string) - $39.99
- Parelli Carrot Stick + Savvy String - $83.94
How they can charge these prices and still claim it's all about helping people with their horses is beyond me.
How long have you got?
Didn't like 'In A Whisper' ... more aptly named 'With A Sledgehammer'
Don't like the OTT showbiz element
Don't like the OTT marketing
Don't like the fact that, if you follow Parelli to the letter, they don't want you learning about other methods or even speaking to anyone but Parelli teachers about the methods. They don't even like their 'students' learning from each other
Don't like how you learn from a DVD. You can't learn a practical skill from a DVD, there are (or should be) subtleties that you just can't get from a DVD or a book
Don't like the fact that it's presented as suitable for novices. Novices need a mentor whether it be a RI, an experienced friend or a teacher of some description
Don't like the fact that horses are drilled
Don't like how little reward is given for the horse's effort
Don't like the pressure that is used in the higher levels. You don't see it so much at L1 which is why there are so many devotees
Don't like the pseudo science that they use which has very little basis in fact
Don't like their recommendations on saddle fitting
Don't like Horsenality as it's a total load of bs
Don't like how they teach you to ride, it goes against everything that is known to be biomechanically correct
Don't like how many Parelli'd horses turn out or the fact that they're not encouraged to have a personality (my favourite quote is ... "Parelli is happy for their horses to show their personalities so long as their horses are happy to meet Level 4 pressure").
Don't like how cultish Parelli is. There's nothing wrong with saying that you don't like or agree with 'x' about certain methods and, imo, is how we progress. It's very rare that you get anyone who takes Parelli seriously admitting that there are problems within the Parelli method
Don't like Patience Posts, witholding food and water as a training method, Linda's voice and how she refers to horses as 'snotty', they're not 'snotty', they're just telling you that they don't like what you're doing, Pat and his God complex (what's the difference between God and Pat Parelli ... God doesn't think that he's Pat Parelli) and how there is very little, if any, positive reinforcement in the Parelli method.
I'll shut up now ... I'm already wearing my tin hat and flame proof suit
Didn't like 'In A Whisper' ... more aptly named 'With A Sledgehammer'
Don't like the OTT showbiz element
Don't like the OTT marketing
Don't like the fact that, if you follow Parelli to the letter, they don't want you learning about other methods or even speaking to anyone but Parelli teachers about the methods. They don't even like their 'students' learning from each other
Don't like how you learn from a DVD. You can't learn a practical skill from a DVD, there are (or should be) subtleties that you just can't get from a DVD or a book
Don't like the fact that it's presented as suitable for novices. Novices need a mentor whether it be a RI, an experienced friend or a teacher of some description
Don't like the fact that horses are drilled
Don't like how little reward is given for the horse's effort
Don't like the pressure that is used in the higher levels. You don't see it so much at L1 which is why there are so many devotees
Don't like the pseudo science that they use which has very little basis in fact
Don't like their recommendations on saddle fitting
Don't like Horsenality as it's a total load of bs
Don't like how they teach you to ride, it goes against everything that is known to be biomechanically correct
Don't like how many Parelli'd horses turn out or the fact that they're not encouraged to have a personality (my favourite quote is ... "Parelli is happy for their horses to show their personalities so long as their horses are happy to meet Level 4 pressure").
Don't like how cultish Parelli is. There's nothing wrong with saying that you don't like or agree with 'x' about certain methods and, imo, is how we progress. It's very rare that you get anyone who takes Parelli seriously admitting that there are problems within the Parelli method
Don't like Patience Posts, witholding food and water as a training method, Linda's voice and how she refers to horses as 'snotty', they're not 'snotty', they're just telling you that they don't like what you're doing, Pat and his God complex (what's the difference between God and Pat Parelli ... God doesn't think that he's Pat Parelli) and how there is very little, if any, positive reinforcement in the Parelli method.
I'll shut up now ... I'm already wearing my tin hat and flame proof suit
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I feel deeply uneasy about any NH brand/school of thinking that assumes that if a horse is not afraid of you he is trying to dominate you when he e.g. bites you or "invades your space".
Quote from parelli.com:
"There are really only two reasons a horse will invade your space; FEAR or DOMINANCE (for more info see our Horsenality DVD)."
Surely one very common reason for "invading space" is that the horse doesn't know any better??
There are more reasons than just those two for biting as well. Wanting, and teaching others, to see horse behaviour in such stark, simplistic terms is worryingly ill-advised.
Quote from parelli.com:
"There are really only two reasons a horse will invade your space; FEAR or DOMINANCE (for more info see our Horsenality DVD)."
Surely one very common reason for "invading space" is that the horse doesn't know any better??
There are more reasons than just those two for biting as well. Wanting, and teaching others, to see horse behaviour in such stark, simplistic terms is worryingly ill-advised.
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old_woman
a VERY senior citizen
*dons tin hat*
That is certainly one of my major objections - the sheer hypocrisy and deception of feeding on the ignorance and innocence of some of the nicest and most well-meaning people under the guise of their being not just the 'best' but the 'only' effective, decent and humane way to handle horses AND charging extortionate prices for it.
I am well aware that there is a great deal of value in the Parelli organisation's educational materials and social aspects, and they should stand as a prime example of what CAN (not what SHOULD!) be done when next the BHS or PC are having their annual moan about low membership levels and lack of participation.
Not that there is anything wrong per se in charging huge prices for things. Exclusive fashion houses do this all the time, as do jewellers, hotels in Monaco and yacht-makers. I have no objection to this. If people want to drink coffee ground from beans which have been $h@t out of the rear-end of a New Guinean mongoose (or is it a civet?) at $100 a pop, then go for it. However, as far as I am aware, none of these purport to offer a morally-superior alternative to their rivals, or try to imply that if you can't afford or don't want - say - a Dior dress for your little girl, you are committing child abuse.
Designers, hoteliers and ship-builders move on from the house of their apprenticeship - usually with encouragement from their 'masters', who recognise that the apprentice trained under a good master will eventually need more freedom - to develop their own styles of 'whatever' and fall or flourish according to the market and their own business acumen. Apprentice masters are proud of the success of their protegees, and will offer them public admiration instead of sending them to Coventry. The student's success is equally that of the teacher!
Mr Parelli, though, appears to run - or be the mouthpiece of - an elitist totalitarian organisation in which he is the charismatic, self-appointed, dogmatic, and largely if not wholly unaccountable founder/leader. Psychological coercion is clearly used to help recruit members and encourage them to spend more money, and the organisation's great wealth benefits neither its members nor equestrian society at large.
One of the problems with Parelli I feel is that many of the 'students' come to believe that they have found the only way to train a horse and hence put the organisation into the status of a religious or therapeutic cult. The organisation itself, by its very structure, seems to foster this, as it fulfils most, if not all, of the requirements for 'cult status' given on reputable cult information websites.
The other thing that many 'followers' fail to take on board is that Parelli is a business and a very successful one at that. At the end of the day, every business needs to see a gap in the market, fill it, create an ongoing need for it, and generate repeat business. The levels system was artificial and there to keep members attached and spending, locked into doing it a certain way or 'failing' the next level. As such, it had only a limited lifespan.
As an aside, can anyone tell me the average age of paid-up members of the Parelli organisation?
old_woman
a VERY senior citizen
How long have you got?
...
Don't like Patience Posts, witholding food and water as a training method,
...
I'll shut up now ... I'm already wearing my tin hat and flame proof suit
Don't shut up - tell me more. I didn't know the PPs had taken on the roles of medieval torturers now.
Perhaps the Patience Post (is it what I think it is
?) and deprivation of food and water might go someway towards explaining why my sweet little rising 4-yo ex-Parelli Rosie rears when tied in certain situations, and cribs herself to a frenzy when shut in somewhere - anywhere but in a horsebox or trailer, as she is the perfect traveller! - even if for the briefest moment. I have given up using a stable or the byre with her, currently use my 'good' trailer for her to stand in when drying off etc, and am looking to get an old stock trailer to position on blocks in the yard, solely to use as 'hers'. It is clear that she doesn't want to crib; it is as certain as it ever can be that she doesn't physically need to crib any more, but the psychological compulsion for her to do so is - equally clearly - overwhelming.
parelli horses tend either to not have minds of their own or they dont and one day they just blow and then bam your injured. they cant lunge which is a pain up the arse and generally if you buy a parelli horse you have to retrain it all over again to get it to be a nice creature!! and backing a horse in 5 minutes... whole point is its supposed to be gradual! anyone can jump on and siit there for a minute but if u wnat your horse to be trained properly it needs to be broken with patience!! thye seem to lack patience coz as soon as something goes wrong the hrose gets a crack round the head with the big stick!! and the way pat and linda ride???!! feel sorry for the poor horses backs as they thump down on them!! grr hate them
I guess they don't have polos in the USA lol As mugging you for polos is surly the third reason!
JustJas
New Member
He reminds me of an Evangelical preacher.
"this is the way to enlightenment and... this is the cost in dollars."
Am not convinced at all.
"this is the way to enlightenment and... this is the cost in dollars."
Am not convinced at all.
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Flynn seems to like to stand so he is just tickling you with his whiskers (they are not whiskers that filter the fumes from the fires of hell, honest
). He likes to stand like that. And he likes to graze around his mum's feet. I don't find him fearful or dominant, he is a lovely horse who seems to like people and enjoy being near them 
I had some Parelli work done with my old cob and it worked in that he would let me use clippers on his body, which was what I wanted, but the 'Parelli man' wasn't satisfied with that and wanted to be able clip his legs too. I was quite happy not to bother with his legs and said so, but the 'Parelli man' was determined to win - it had turned into a battle by that point and he was getting rough. After that I didn't have 'Parelli man' back, it struck me that the interests of me (horse owner) and my horse seemed to be less important than his ego and desire to get what he wanted. My attitude is that we have a relationship with horses that is based on compromise and partnership, and sometimes you don't 'win' but you meet half way. I don't think that philosophy has any place in world of Parelli from what I have seen of it so I don't think it's for me
V
vimto92
Guest
newrider.com