Hello.. Just bought a new horse, a 6 year old QH gelding by the name of Danny. He windsucks and we have a collar on him although he didn't do it when we took the collar off. Does anyone know how to fix/cure his windsucking without costing a fortune?
Windsucker :S any ideas on how to stop it?
- Thread starter lifeofriley
- Start date
If he didn't do it when you took the collar off then leave the collar off. (I would leave the collar off anyway.) What is he fed and how much turnout does he get? Is he turned out with others or alone?
I read somewhere that the cause is stomach ulcers & if you treat the ulcers the windsucking stops. Might be worth investigating. I have no personal experience of this. (Just a good memory)
I bought Cisco 3 years ago and he was a bad cribber at first. I used a miracle collar with him and it stopped his crbbing when it was on. Our horses are out in the pasture about 16 hours a day. We bring them in at night in the winter and in during the day in the summer. Initially I put Cisco in a stall when the horses were in. If he didn't wear his collar, he cribbed almost constantly.
Now when he comes in, he is in part of the aisle of the barn and has free access to a round pen. I also give him free choice hay and he never gained any weight because of it. I also reduced the amount of grain he gets. Now he doesn't need the Miracle collar anymore. The only time he cribs is for about 5 minutes after he finishes his grain.
Now when he comes in, he is in part of the aisle of the barn and has free access to a round pen. I also give him free choice hay and he never gained any weight because of it. I also reduced the amount of grain he gets. Now he doesn't need the Miracle collar anymore. The only time he cribs is for about 5 minutes after he finishes his grain.
I hate to say it but you'll probably never completely "cure" him.
I've had an amazing improvement with Equine America's U-Gard Plus, it's not cheap but for me it's worth every penny. I've tried various other supplements & collars with very little positive effect & his diet & management has always been aimed at reducing his cribbing.
Management can help. Ideally he should have ad-lib forage, no cereals, minimal stress & as much turnout in company as possible (unless like Jim he doesn't seem to want more than 6/7 hours turnout & cribs more out than in
)
I've had an amazing improvement with Equine America's U-Gard Plus, it's not cheap but for me it's worth every penny. I've tried various other supplements & collars with very little positive effect & his diet & management has always been aimed at reducing his cribbing.
Management can help. Ideally he should have ad-lib forage, no cereals, minimal stress & as much turnout in company as possible (unless like Jim he doesn't seem to want more than 6/7 hours turnout & cribs more out than in
)
I don't really agree with collars, a bit like wearing gloves when you really need to chew your nails!
I don't think you will find a cure but you can minimise the behaviour. It does however have to start with you not being 'wound up' by it. Lots of turnout, high fibre diet, sometimes antacid supplements but above all being able to ignore the behaviour will minimise it but it will always reemerge at times of stress.
I don't think you will find a cure but you can minimise the behaviour. It does however have to start with you not being 'wound up' by it. Lots of turnout, high fibre diet, sometimes antacid supplements but above all being able to ignore the behaviour will minimise it but it will always reemerge at times of stress.
Thanks, he is turned out 24/7, only brought into a smaller yard at feeding time and let out again when he is finished. He is in a paddock with 3 other geldings, although he is anti-social and keeps to himself alot..
My main concern with him windsucking is that, he was skinny when we bought him, and when they get full of air they are less likely to eat, so im worried about him dropping more weight..
He is fed Weightlifter, (an australian feed) which has Lucerne Chaff, Oaten Chaff, Weight Lifter Horse Pellets, Pollard, and Extruded Cereal Meal, as well as a mineral supplement and Copra.
I found out that he started as a 2 year old, when the people who brought him put him in a stable yard 24/7 only giving him hay and feed so he started doing it then. The idea about the stomach ulcers is good, but I'm a student so finding the money for it could be a little hard. .
My main concern with him windsucking is that, he was skinny when we bought him, and when they get full of air they are less likely to eat, so im worried about him dropping more weight..
He is fed Weightlifter, (an australian feed) which has Lucerne Chaff, Oaten Chaff, Weight Lifter Horse Pellets, Pollard, and Extruded Cereal Meal, as well as a mineral supplement and Copra.
I found out that he started as a 2 year old, when the people who brought him put him in a stable yard 24/7 only giving him hay and feed so he started doing it then. The idea about the stomach ulcers is good, but I'm a student so finding the money for it could be a little hard. .
They are like all stressy horses a nightmare to keep weight on. We have one bad one and one that 'plays' at windsucking but also never stops still long enough to graze seriously. Both eat twice what I would theoretically calculate they need!! Expensive
Like stressy people the more routine, more relaxed you can keep their life the easier they will be to manage. Try to get a fixed catching/feeding/exercising routine. Most of theses horses also need a strong 1 to 1 so try to avoid others caring for him .
Like stressy people the more routine, more relaxed you can keep their life the easier they will be to manage. Try to get a fixed catching/feeding/exercising routine. Most of theses horses also need a strong 1 to 1 so try to avoid others caring for him .
Absolutly ditto 100%!
try these pointers:
- ad-lib forage, preferably hay/high fibre haylage as a deficiency in fibre often causes stable vices like these.
- 24/7 turnout, or if this is impossible, at least daily.
- no cereals. instead feed a forage/fibre-based diet, preferably cubes rather than mixes if you have to use either.
- have him examined by a vet for stomach ulcers, a comon cause/efect of windsucking. adding an antacid to his daily feed can helpreduce stomach acidity and, therefore, reduce ulcers if they are present. your vet should advise you on this.
- also have his teeth checked as these vices can disfigure the teeth and make chewing/digestion difficult, so your horse may lose condition.
- turnout must be with company. in the stable, try to make sure he can at least see other horses, even better touch and smell, etc.
- introduce stable toys if he has to be stabled, and licks. make sure you show hi how to use them though. these can help enormously in reducing stress and boredom, therefore reducing the windsucking. you might like to try some free/cheap toy ideas suggested below.
bear in mind that no collar/supplement, etc, will sure him. he will lessen his bahaviour in time but will probably 'comfort suck' - like some people light a fag - when he's feeling particulary stressed.
the collar will probaby increase his stress levels and therefore his need to suck will increase too. therefore i strongly advise you to take it off completely and throuw it where it belongs - in the bin.
windsucking is caused by stress (not boredom, as many people commonly believe). trying to restrict it increases the horse's biological need to do it. it is rather like a child biting his/her nails or having OCD. Try to stop them full stop will most likely make them go mad. treating the windusking is treating the symptoms,not the problem itself. what you treally need to ask yourself is, as the windsucking isn't the problem itself, then what is? probably a number of factors - especially bearing in mind that your horse has moved to a strange place with many strangers. he will take a while settling it. as windsucking is his only way to relieve himself of this stress, he should not be discouraged either physically or mentally as it is his clever way of helping himself.
give him endless love and strat to earn his trust in the beginnings of forming a bond and strong relationship.
the very best of good luck! well done for taking him on despite his vice - i would have done exactly the same!
some toy examples to keep your horse occupied and to stimulate his brain, if he has to be stabled:
- bobbing apples in his water buckets
- hiding sliced fruit anveg in his haynets
- provide 2 haynets, at either end of the stable so he has to choose/can move across from one to another
- you can buy licks and manufactored toys which can help significantly
- keeping hay in large haynets, with small holes. this will mean your horse takes longer to eat, therefore satisfying his biological need to chew and keeping him with forage fr longer. if you don't have one of these nets/can't find one, then you can always slide one over another for a similar and varied effect.
- feed hay fro the floor if possible. it won't last as long as it would in a hanet but it stretchs and helps develop your horse's topline, will aid his respiratory system as it is a natural (helping him mentally) and beneficial feeding position.
- if your stable has bars, wedge a squeezy baby bottle (or more!) flled with a fruit solution (using a 50:50 water:fruit juice mix) for him to gnaw at and suck on as he pleases - it could probably even remind him of his childhood when he was bottlefed (if he was)
- place a branch (it doesn't have to be thick!) of willow (a natural painkiler), chestnut, beech, birsh, hawthorne...for him to nibble at as he would in the wild.
- if your horse cannot see his neighbour, can you knowck out one or two odd bricks in the wall for them to sniff and touch each other through?
- rather than closing the bottom door, latch it open and instead tie aa leadrope/something across the door. this aids air circulation and will help keep your horse at a cooler, healthy tempreture.
now i do mean this in the nicest possible way, but i do think that collaring a horse is a selfish thing to do, as it is putting the human's needs before the horse's and is an ignorant reaction to your horse's cry for help.
if your yard won't let your horse live out 24/7, then why not? if even long, daily turnout does not significantly helpo then maybe it is time to move yards, for your horse's sake?
Puzzles I agree with nearly everything you say but a collar isn't always for selfish human reasons. I had to put one on Jim for a short time, moving yard had unsettled him so badly that he was cribbing to the extent that he was hardly eating & had given himself two bad colics (I was very very lucky, both nearly needed surgery & the reason he wasn't in hospital for monitoring & treating was we were worried that the stress involved would be more than he could cope with). I hated the collar, probably more than he did, but the cycle had to be broken & that was the only way - he started eating properly which eased his stomach, made him more relaxed & took away the need to crib almost non-stop. He could then benefit from his general management & the U-Gard until now, a few months later, he is very rarely seen to crib & is eating me out of house & home
I find offering a choice of forages sometimes helps and he'll go from one pile to another depending on what he fancies. If I have a bale he doesn't like there's no point in continuing to offer it (indeed he'll carefully sh1t on it then give me a filthy look before going to the door for a token crib) & getting the best possible hay is money well spent.
Alfalfa is meant to be good for cribbers as the high calcium content acts as a buffer to other foods so if you must feed traditional hard feed try mixing it with alfalfa. I was told nuts should be soaked to make them easier on his stomach but he doesn't really like nuts anyway so I don't feed them. Two feeds I've found to be really good are Simple Systems Luciebix (basically unmollassed alfalfa that you soak, Mr Fussy loves this) & Saracen Re-Leve which is a cereal free feed that looks (& presumably) tastes more like a coarse mix.
I always love the idea of putting branches in the stable for him to chew but apparently they turn into deadly horse-eating monsters & he either won't go in the stable (if the branch is already there) or bolts out / has a panic attack (if I take the branch in when he's already in) - anyone know any horse psychiatrists
I find offering a choice of forages sometimes helps and he'll go from one pile to another depending on what he fancies. If I have a bale he doesn't like there's no point in continuing to offer it (indeed he'll carefully sh1t on it then give me a filthy look before going to the door for a token crib
) & getting the best possible hay is money well spent. Alfalfa is meant to be good for cribbers as the high calcium content acts as a buffer to other foods so if you must feed traditional hard feed try mixing it with alfalfa. I was told nuts should be soaked to make them easier on his stomach but he doesn't really like nuts anyway so I don't feed them. Two feeds I've found to be really good are Simple Systems Luciebix (basically unmollassed alfalfa that you soak, Mr Fussy loves this) & Saracen Re-Leve which is a cereal free feed that looks (& presumably) tastes more like a coarse mix.
I always love the idea of putting branches in the stable for him to chew but apparently they turn into deadly horse-eating monsters & he either won't go in the stable (if the branch is already there) or bolts out / has a panic attack (if I take the branch in when he's already in) - anyone know any horse psychiatrists
Sorry. :-(
My excuse is that I was 20 minutes away from the worst exam of my life and I was already feeling p****d off and sick.
I understand and accept that there are exceptions to everything and that you were doing the best you could for your horse, putting him first - and it worked so i ain't gonna argue! ;-)
Just ignore me, I usually come out with a load of rubbish anyway.
Sorry again.
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My excuse is that I was 20 minutes away from the worst exam of my life and I was already feeling p****d off and sick.
I understand and accept that there are exceptions to everything and that you were doing the best you could for your horse, putting him first - and it worked so i ain't gonna argue! ;-)
Just ignore me, I usually come out with a load of rubbish anyway.
Sorry again.
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Puzzles I wasn't getting at you or your advice It's just a few people made me feel really bad about using a collar & I'd hate anyone else to feel that picked on about doing something that may be necessary. I certainly agree they aren't an alternative to trying to find an answer, be it different management or supplements - used that way they are just an opt out & poor horsemanship IMO.
I just remembered one more thing that made a difference to Jim. His cribbing went from very little to virtually non-existant a couple of days after a visit from a McTimony lady who did a lot of work on his atlas (top of neck & poll area). Coincidence?
Puzzles I'm sorry if I upset you, your advice certainly wasn't rubbish & I hope the exam wasn't as bad as you feared
It's just a few people made me feel really bad about using a collar & I'd hate anyone else to feel that picked on about doing something that may be necessary. I certainly agree they aren't an alternative to trying to find an answer, be it different management or supplements - used that way they are just an opt out & poor horsemanship IMO.I just remembered one more thing that made a difference to Jim. His cribbing went from very little to virtually non-existant a couple of days after a visit from a McTimony lady who did a lot of work on his atlas (top of neck & poll area). Coincidence?
Puzzles I'm sorry if I upset you, your advice certainly wasn't rubbish & I hope the exam wasn't as bad as you feared
S
showjumper-zoe
Guest
Windsucking is a way of the horse relieving stress so by putting a collar on it cannot so will find another way or get round the collar and still be able to do it. So I would increase his turnout time and give him contact with other horses as much as possible and keep him to close as possible natuaral environment like in the wild.
You say you have just got him so maybe he will stop when he has settled properly and feels relaxed.
Maybe hide carrots around the stable to encourage natural forreging behaviour a snack a ball may help if filled with low calorie nuts like high fibre cubes from spillers and put hay/hayledge in a lot of little piles so he moves aound and may take longer to eat and feed it on the floor.
You say you have just got him so maybe he will stop when he has settled properly and feels relaxed.
Maybe hide carrots around the stable to encourage natural forreging behaviour a snack a ball may help if filled with low calorie nuts like high fibre cubes from spillers and put hay/hayledge in a lot of little piles so he moves aound and may take longer to eat and feed it on the floor.
Thanks for all the advice!
Puzzles, I agree with you, I havn't actually put the collar on him since I've had him, but had it merely as a last resort
I guess if windsucking is a stress-related behaivour, that could be the reason he seems anti-social with the other horses, and is keeping his distance?
I know that he started windsucking as a 2 year old, when the people who bought him became afraid of him and put him into a small stable yard with no company and nothing to do, so I understand how it's stress related.
Can anyone think of a way to get him a bit more social, rather than standing off by himself all the time?
Puzzles, I agree with you, I havn't actually put the collar on him since I've had him, but had it merely as a last resort
I guess if windsucking is a stress-related behaivour, that could be the reason he seems anti-social with the other horses, and is keeping his distance?
I know that he started windsucking as a 2 year old, when the people who bought him became afraid of him and put him into a small stable yard with no company and nothing to do, so I understand how it's stress related.
Can anyone think of a way to get him a bit more social, rather than standing off by himself all the time?
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