worms. let us discuss these horrors

newforest

newforest

Well-Known Member
Mar 15, 2008
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Ok, in case you do not know, my cob is undergoing treatment for redworm.

Without scaring the pants off everyone, these little bleep!!!! worms can kill your horse.

I am glad i do not use the herbal type as i would now feel that is in effective. I used a well known brand in October.

Who uses what and when?
Do you know that only a blood test shows the encysted?
 
Equest Pramox in November and I hope that will have dealt with both stages of redworm and tapeworm. However, there has been so much lately about this subject and the awful damage they can do that I am no longer confident with my worming for them. Do use other wormers throughout the year aimed at other worms BTW.

I am now seriously considering getting mine all blood tested, just so blooming evil aren't they if we inadvertently miss them?

Will watch this thread with interest.
 
Generally and up to today I just use equest pramox twice a year,spring and autumn.

My lad up till now has been kept on his own,no other horses have grazed the land for over 20 years,and my winter field get's cross grazed with other livestock so I am confident that no further measures are needed.

However when I have been on livery yards or shared grazing in the past I have rotated wormers so use a variety of active ingredients to help with the resistance problem,and wormed far more often than I do now.

My lad is off to a new yard next week for a while so I have just today wormed with an ivermectin based wormer purely so I can tell YO he has been wormed and will be using pramox come spring when has been mixing with others for a few weeks so risk will have increased of him actually having worms.

I have never done worm counts and indeed believe they may even be contributing to the increase in worm burdens as people mistakenly believe they will show infestation from all worms,and that there is no need to chemically worm ever,when in fact they don't show certain worms (or bots which can also cause problems health wise) and aren't always even accurate in showing the actual amount of burden the horse is carrying.
I don't have any faith in herbal wormers either.

Natural and non invasive treatments for certain things are great,and entirely preferable if they work of course,but I'm afraid when it comes to worms I will take the chemical route every time.There's often no going back from the damage a heavy worm burden can cause,and as it often has no symptoms until it is too late to reverse it I personally wouldn't take the chance.
 
Charlie & Me said:
Egg counts for me. But does that show the encysted ones??? Got me worried now.
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No they don't,nor tapeworm nor bots,(which technically aren't worms of course,but cause problems none the less if in large numbers),they will also advise you to worm with a chemical wormer anyway if they detect anything,so you end up paying twice,not the end of the world and maybe cost shouldn't come into it,but in these current economic times has to be a consideration.
 
I rotate my wormers and am down to just treating once a year for encysted redworms and once for tapes (both don't show up in the counts). It's taken testing to show that the worming has been effective and to show they haven't picked up more. I rent a field to myself and we have sheep on in winter.

I'm a big believer in egg counts as I know all too well the dangers I treating horses with wormers, thinking that the wormer has killed the worms and carrying on in ignorance whilst worms continue to multiply.

I'm also a big believer in rotational worming and not relying purely on the equests year in year out as when worms develop resistance to this we're screwed for the next thing to try.
 
I'm the same as DL - equest twice a year as they live at home and I poo pick daily - sometimes twice a day. Have been thinking about poss doing worm counts a couple of times a year but am now wondering if it would be worth doing this if they wouldnt show up encysted red worm?

Maybe I should do bloods yearly when the horses get their flu and tet jags?
 
devonlass said:
No they don't,nor tapeworm nor bots,(which technically aren't worms of course,but cause problems none the less if in large numbers),they will also advise you to worm with a chemical wormer anyway if they detect anything,so you end up paying twice,not the end of the world and maybe cost shouldn't come into it,but in these current economic times has to be a consideration.
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I disagree entirely with your approach for my situation which is similar to your except i keep 2 together in a closed herd. How do you know what you've wormed with was either required or effective?
 
eggcounts dont show tapeworm or pinworms :( been battling with pinworms (or rather, Appley has!!!) for years now - nightmare! of course she's the only one who has them so much AND rubs her bum raw each time - tried everything now, vet's been and advised etc. they keep coming back :devil:
 
When I had my own yard and only my own ponied there I worm counted 3-4 times a year and treated as necessary although have always given Wormers for encysted roundworm, bots and tapes both late autumn and early spring as these do not show in worm counts. Now I am on a yard I have to fit in with yard owners worming programme although Wormers are alternated and fields poo picked.
 
notpoodle said:
eggcounts dont show tapeworm or pinworms :( been battling with pinworms (or rather, Appley has!!!) for years now - nightmare! of course she's the only one who has them so much AND rubs her bum raw each time - tried everything now, vet's been and advised etc. they keep coming back :devil:
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Has your vet suggested using the wormer directly into the rectum. I understand that this has had some success with hard to shift pin worms, but does need the vet there to remove anything manually from the rectum prior to inserting the wormer. Apologies if this has already been tried.
 
Same as DL and HH, equest pramox, twice a year for tape and encysted as it's not picked up in counts... We worm count, which have all been clear or low and we poo pick daily, or in the summer twice a day.. We do have our muck heaps in the corner of our fields which isn't great but there is nowhere else for our poo to go..

You don't end up paying twice though - you are just counting instead of worming over the summer months?! Worm counts need to be used in conjunction with good grazing management or otherwise yes you will have a burden and end up counting then worming I suppose but if you are poo picking, rotating/resting not overgrazing etc then there is no reason for them not to save you money ?!
 
Up until now I have always been tied in to what ever routine the livery yard I'm on has operated. Now I have my own land I will be worming over winter for encysted redworm and tapeworm, then doing regular worm counting throughout the year and worming where required. I poo pick as often as I can, which will be daily once we get a titchy bit more light, but at the moment is having to be a weekly clear out of the fields which isn't ideal.

Bella had a heavy redworm burden when we first got her, when she was having her 5 day wormer her droppings contained a huge amount of them. She picked up no end once she'd got rid of them! I kept her in the school until we'd treated her, then worm counted again to see what the results were.
 
AnCupla said:
Has your vet suggested using the wormer directly into the rectum. I understand that this has had some success with hard to shift pin worms, but does need the vet there to remove anything manually from the rectum prior to inserting the wormer. Apologies if this has already been tried.
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yep, that's been tried - both the wormer and a dectomax/paraffin solution. worked a bit, but they soon returned :(

we've got a good routine on the yard, with regular wormcounts and spot bloodtests for tapeworm, too ... albeit, a herd of 25 will always be tricky to manage. our field is a 40 acre steep hillside so we dont poopick, but harrow when the weather is suitable - great environment for the horses, but has its downsides when it comes to things like worming, unfortunately ...
 
Yes, encysted, like tape worm, need a blood test to determine burden. The encysted stage DOES NOT get found on 'faecal worm counts', they come back clear, only a blood test/biopsy will show you the true amount.


This is a really helpful site:

http://www.wormers-direct.co.uk/typesofworms/smallredworm.html



Fenbendazole and Moxidectin are the only 2 left that work against these worms (redworm/encysted/inhibited stages) ... and even then, there is question now as to the effectiveness of Fenbendazole (found in the panacur 5 day wormer), there is research to suggests growing immunity by the worms to this.

However Moxidectin (Equest) does still work against them.

Here is a chart to do a cross reference as to which wormers contain which active ingredient, i found it really useful to get my head round it:

http://www.wormers-direct.co.uk/wormerprices.html


Also Gill on here is from Westgate labs ... she really knows her stuff too.
 
Just a word of warning to those of you who worm twice a year.

Ziggy's colic was caused by tapeworms. I wormed him against them in April so the little blighters were presumably resistant. However, I told my insurers what my worming schedule was - very like yours - and they replied, "The manufacturers state that you must worm every 6 weeks in the summer. You didn't. Therefore we will not pay your claim."

And they didn't. So beware.

I do not intend to worm any more frequently because I believe over worming contributes to the resistance that nearly killed Ziggy. But that means that for worm related illnesses my insurance is worthless.
 
Bitsnpieces, if you had heavy worm burden like tilley. Yo u may well already have gut damage. She had over 100 in one sample. Blood test showed as 1.6 when it should only be 0.5.
 
Jane&Ziggy said:
Just a word of warning to those of you who worm twice a year.

Ziggy's colic was caused by tapeworms. I wormed him against them in April so the little blighters were presumably resistant. However, I told my insurers what my worming schedule was - very like yours - and they replied, "The manufacturers state that you must worm every 6 weeks in the summer. You didn't. Therefore we will not pay your claim."

And they didn't. So beware.

I do not intend to worm any more frequently because I believe over worming contributes to the resistance that nearly killed Ziggy. But that means that for worm related illnesses my insurance is worthless.
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But you only need to treat for tape worm twice a year. :unsure:
 
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