Would you (or do you) feed bute as a long term option ?

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Ruskii

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Jun 21, 2000
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:cry:

ItIt's not good news here in my part of the world. To keep my horse sound I'm looking at a future of him needing a sacet aday to keep sound. The youngster idea I had is a pipe dream and not happening.

I always said if my horse couldn't walk or trot comfortably in the field I would PTS but I can't look at him anymore without feeling sad as he's at that point, BUT if he has the bute he's a lot happier nd a different horse. Boswella and Tuneric have had no affect on him.

I just feel like the bute is a band aidand I'm putting my head in the sand :(
 
As long as the bute isn't an alternative to dealing with the problem & you know what the issue is then I wouldn't have any problem with it. If Jim could tolerate bute, or any NSAID, then I'd give him some when the weather makes his hocks stiff, unfortunately I have to rely on boswellia & careful management & I'm heartbreakingly aware that ultimately this may well shorten his life because the time will come when more serious pain relief will be needed & there is none that he can tolerate.

Bute to give improved quality of life for an untreatable condition is perfectly acceptable to me.
 
So sorry to read this - I kept Solly for about two years on a bute a day - he had already been retired to pasture two years previously, but was sound at grass. By the end of the fourth year I also had him on Devil's claw and comfrey (I think it was comfrey- can't remember exactly!) He was very happy like that and enjoyed being a big bunny rabbit and head of the herd.

However towards the end he wasn't sound on the bute and it had been sporadically increased in the months leading to PTS. On reflection I think I should probably have made the decision to PTS when a bute a day no longer kept him comfortable mooching around.

Having said all that, I was very fortunate to have my own land and facilities and always had more than one horse on the go so retiring him wasn't such a difficult thing to do. However, had he been my only horse and he was at livery I really don't know if I would have carried on with him as long as I did, especially if I was struggling to pay for livery etc, as most of us in our younger working days have to do to keep our horses.

Sorry - probably not much help, but just my experience with bute and an unsound horse.
 
I think its worth a try to perhaps even just let him have some comfy retirement if your in the position to offer that. If things progress further then thats another bridge to cross. I would take each day as it comes and reassess as needed.
 
I am writing this after lots of wine so excuse me if this isn't the PC thing to say, but if it took 5 bute per day to keep Ben happy and pain free in the field then this is what I would give him. I would continue giving him bute until either the side effects from the bute took hold, or he no longer looked happy and was suffering. It breaks my heart to even consider this situation and I'm so sorry that you are facing it. My priority would be to keep him happy and pain free - whatever amount of drugs this may take - as long as he wasn't having side effects. When the day comes that the drugs no longer work, that would be the time to say goodbye. xxxx
 
Yes, I would. I know plenty of humans on long-term serious medication and what's the difference? I am very sorry to hear it's come to this though.
 
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Mystique was on Bute for the last few months of her life,it was not due to that she was pts though. She was kept happy,pain free and enjoyed been a horse in her early retirement due to Bute,I would do it again.
So sorry you are facing this decision but I honestly feel if you and he are happy to carry on with the Bute then go for it x
 
I'm toying with trying another injection (he had it into his pastern joint or coffin - I can't remember which but both joints had arthritis on them) with the idea being see how it went and if not then inject the other joint and see.

I need to try before I call it a day :(
 
I am very sorry to hear this :(

Rubic was on a danilon a day for a while before she was PTS, she was frequently still in pain on that and required two sachets some days (particularly when there had been a drop in temperature). I had a bit of an issue in that getting her to eat the danilon without also causing issues with her feet (lami) was a problem and it just felt like battle after battle. She went downhill surprisingly quickly though and with the thought of winter ahead I decided that I'd rather let her go when it was still warm and she was still having good days.

Personally, even if a bute/danilon a day had kept Rubic comfortable at grass then I think I still may have made the choice before winter. She struggled last year and our winters are not usually mild - the wet fields followed by the freezing cold followed by more wet, boggy fields would have taken their toll. I'm not saying it is wrong to keep a horse on painkillers, just that it wasn't right for us.

It is a personal thing and I think you will just know when the time comes. I hope you have longer together. If you need to talk please feel free to message me.
 
A bute a day isn't much and well worth a try. I will second, you will know when it's time, in your gut and heart, until then you just have to try everything you can x
 
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My old chap had bute, He lived until he was mid 30's before the arthritus took hold. Without it he was very stiff in the mornings, with it you never knew anything was up, and certainly what age he was ! we had the odd pootle out to round the forest, that boy still had it in him! We went on a sponsered ride when he was 31 ish people couldnt believe his age ! bute isnt the end of the world but like others have said you will just know when the time has come to let them go.
 
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Take it each day at a time, try it out and see how he seems. Let him be your guide. Not anyone else. Gawd that sounds awfully cheesy but, I think you'll know when enough is enough.
I'm sorry Ruskii. This could very easily be me writing this. I expect it to happen. It just reminds me to make the most of what we have every day and if it's any consolation at all, you're helping others better appreciate their horses.
 
If the pain relief meant that the horse was paddock sound. Yes, I'd do it. If you were buting up to ride etc, no.

Personally though, if you were looking at long term use, I'd be looking at getting danilon rather than bute. The substance is basically the same and will have the same reaction without the side effects of liver damage etc as quickly.

Can I ask what you're mixing with the turmeric? I was using either soya oil or olive oil and only 8-15 grinds of pepper with 3 scoops of turmeric. I swapped to linseed oil, and 10 grinds of pepper per scoop and what a difference. Gem got full range of movement back at both her knees and has started being stroppier again (which is normal for her!). I'm not saying it's a fix it cure, but maybe experiment with what you're giving him with oil and increasing the amount of grinds per scoop of turmeric?
 
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Ruskii said:
:cry:

ItIt's not good news here in my part of the world. To keep my horse sound I'm looking at a future of him needing a sacet aday to keep sound. The youngster idea I had is a pipe dream and not happening.

I always said if my horse couldn't walk or trot comfortably in the field I would PTS but I can't look at him anymore without feeling sad as he's at that point, BUT if he has the bute he's a lot happier nd a different horse. Boswella and Tuneric have had no affect on him.

I just feel like the bute is a band aidand I'm putting my head in the sand :(
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I don't see bute as band aid at all. I know it depends on what you intend / want to do with your horse but danilon has transformed Storm. Last summer we had a horrendous mystery disease (vet suspected Lymes) which highlighted her stiffness more than ever. So much so that we thought we had reached the end of the road. Prior to this she had been given hock injections which worked for a time but then the effects wore off and got less each time we repeated.
Anyway long story short, I feel now we've managed to reach a really good level where is is comfy and we are both happy. The vet said it could take a while to get it right and it did. She is on half a sachet morning and half at night. Being out more or less 24/7 helps lots too, though she does come in for about three or four hours.
I would never advocate keeping a horse even as a companion if he or she can't comfortably get about in the field - but if it means a danilon a day then so be it. My girl was not visibly sore or stiff in the field at first - it wasn't until her weird illness last year we really noticed it. Prior to that it was just when ridden.
What options have you and your vet talked through?
 
He seems to think long term bute is viable as in his long term experience he has not known any horses suffer with it long term.

I was having a bad moment yesterday but my horse took off like grease lightening this morning at the approach of his head collar but stopped after 5/6 strides as it clearly wasn't worth the effort / or he was too sore / he thought no point - I'm heading to a dead end anyway.

I fed the turmeric with micronized linseed, I make the golden paste up for the dog and he has that along with homemade liver treats with turmeric added to that with the oil and pepper, marginal improvement for him.

I knew that flax (linseed) oil was the better carrier, however I could try adding more and upping all the doses (for those that don't know you have a base ratio of all ingredients that is to be kept at the same ratio when increasing the turmeric) and see how it goes, I have concerns anyway over my horses gut any rate hence me questioning the long term bute, the vet did say he could be ridden again as a gentle hack (which is all he does anyway) as it would be good for him to get out and about so that option is there for him (if I ever get my head into gear and diet properly !! :banghead: ) But failing that we are going out on the roads enjoying our inhand hacks a lot. I could do the Danilon as a long term option I suppose, but realistically the arthritis has shortened the amount of years I expected to have him with me :(

He did say as well under no circumstances to stable him (unless life threatening or I REALLY have to) as being out 24/7 is the best thing for them, but my horse has been out 24/7 anyrate for the majority of the time I have owned him. I'm doing what I can in the mid term, he's on a stricter diet now and has lost weight, and has no field mate to hassle him, but my horse is one who is happier on his own any rate and he does have a companion over the fence and they mutually groom each other so he has those needs met.
 
If you're feeding micronised linseed, are you aware that you have to feed double the dose to what you'd feed in linseed oil for it to make a difference? Flipos mum - I use the recommended dose of linseed oil (I think 45ml springs to mind for Gems size/weight).

Have you both seen the turmeric user group on FB?
 
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ponylover88 said:
If you're feeding micronised linseed, are you aware that you have to feed double the dose to what you'd feed in linseed oil for it to make a difference? Flipos mum - I use the recommended dose of linseed oil (I think 45ml springs to mind for Gems size/weight).

Have you both seen the turmeric user group on FB?
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Thanks, yes I am aware. After I joined the TUG on FB I used all the information on there. Horse has been on the golden paste and the straights to his feed , just been out this afternoon and brought some more ingredients to make up a potent dose of horse treats at double dosage tumeric and other items - see if that makes a difference.
 
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