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Elfin
Guest
aw, I know, but, oh....I am confused, I am going to ask someone tomorrow, I am just hoping that it was there before she got Thomas, I woudn't like to think of her being mean to him.
Hackamores
- Thread starter raeychelle
- Start date
Why would have thought that even if she dodn't cause the bump, that continuing to use it is aggravating the problem, it definitely isn't helping.
hackamore
I've ridden my horses in a rawhide-core traditional hackamore for years. I believed that what you have on a horse's head, whatever it is, is for communication, not control. Your problem is with training, not the hackmore. You'll have trouble regardless of what you use because the horse doesn't have the basics. You might want to go back and work with your horse on the ground. Lead and stop. You walk out briskly, then say "whoa" (the word is whoa, not ho). It's said in the same way in the same tone every time. As you say whoa, you stop - fully and completely. You do nothing else, you don't look at the horse or anywhere else. As you do this, you tug at the leadline. After you tug, the horse will stop. Then you drop the line slightly so the horse has slack. That's his reward for obeying. Then cluck and walk forward. Be patient. It' won't happen overnight. Praise him when he does what you want. Your answer isn't in a bigger, more severe bit, it's in proper training.
I've ridden my horses in a rawhide-core traditional hackamore for years. I believed that what you have on a horse's head, whatever it is, is for communication, not control. Your problem is with training, not the hackmore. You'll have trouble regardless of what you use because the horse doesn't have the basics. You might want to go back and work with your horse on the ground. Lead and stop. You walk out briskly, then say "whoa" (the word is whoa, not ho). It's said in the same way in the same tone every time. As you say whoa, you stop - fully and completely. You do nothing else, you don't look at the horse or anywhere else. As you do this, you tug at the leadline. After you tug, the horse will stop. Then you drop the line slightly so the horse has slack. That's his reward for obeying. Then cluck and walk forward. Be patient. It' won't happen overnight. Praise him when he does what you want. Your answer isn't in a bigger, more severe bit, it's in proper training.
Elfin & WitsEnd
WitsEnd- I know what you mean about the "Whoa!"/"Ho!" thing! The horses where I ride are trained on "whoa", but this girl who rides with us sometimes, still insists on saying "ho". I keep saying to her that the horses never listen because they don't understand, but she keeps insisting that it works...even though it never does work... Sorry, but she bothers me!
Elfin- Just casually approach your instructor and ask how Thomas got the bump on his nose. If she asks why, just say that you were walking around the stalls, and noticed the bump and wondered how he got it. Don't say anything about hackamores, until she tells you- if you do, it might sound like you are accusing her, and she might get upset. Innocent and curiously- it always works for me!
Maci
WitsEnd- I know what you mean about the "Whoa!"/"Ho!" thing! The horses where I ride are trained on "whoa", but this girl who rides with us sometimes, still insists on saying "ho". I keep saying to her that the horses never listen because they don't understand, but she keeps insisting that it works...even though it never does work... Sorry, but she bothers me!
Elfin- Just casually approach your instructor and ask how Thomas got the bump on his nose. If she asks why, just say that you were walking around the stalls, and noticed the bump and wondered how he got it. Don't say anything about hackamores, until she tells you- if you do, it might sound like you are accusing her, and she might get upset. Innocent and curiously- it always works for me!
Maci
Ok, I'm going to jump in here on this one. I have used hackamores on many horses over the years, and I have never known one to break a nose, nor have I ever heard of it happening. I have seen several horses run right through it however. My own horse, for example, will run through a hack like he had a halter on. I've used mechanical, rubber sleeved chain hacks and rawhide bosals, and some horses take to them and accept them and some don't. I have also ridden horses that did much better in a hackamore than any kind of bit. I don't see them as all that severe unless they are not put on properly, and that is where any problems for horses I have seen have come from. Improper use and adjustment. It is a tool, like a bit, and a person should know how to use any tool before they do. Yes, they take a light hand and I wouldn't put a beginner with one, UNLESS that is what the horse does best in, and he or she is given the proper instruction on how to use it. As for the horse you speak of, I wouldn't jump to any conclusions about the bump on the nose of someone else's horse. Quite frankly, its not your business. Could a hackamore have caused it? It could. Or it could be a birth defect or the horse could have run into any number of things to damage his nose. It makes no difference and all you will do if you accuse someone of using a hack when you know very little about them yourself, is cause sore feelings. I can think of several bits and gags that are much more severe than a hackamore that I would never use. Just one old cowboy's opinion. Happy Trails!
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Elfin
Guest
english, german,......
In the UK, non-western world, you may see an english hackamore, or a german hackamore.
The german hackamores you sometimes see showjumpers using - they have quite long shanks, and so a lot of leverage. Because of this they need to be treated with care. (Just think how much pressure a crow bar exerts - then imagine putting something round a horse's nose and tightening it with a short crow bar !).
English hackamore has shorter shanks.
Other bitless bridles: there is a new one being advertised, but there is also something called a 'scawbrig'.
Or western, you can use a bosal or a sidepull.
The bit bank (http://www.magnolife.com/catalogue.html) is a good place to look up stuff like this, at least for english bits (but they don't have a scawbrig) (It does exists, I have one).
In the UK, non-western world, you may see an english hackamore, or a german hackamore.
The german hackamores you sometimes see showjumpers using - they have quite long shanks, and so a lot of leverage. Because of this they need to be treated with care. (Just think how much pressure a crow bar exerts - then imagine putting something round a horse's nose and tightening it with a short crow bar !).
English hackamore has shorter shanks.
Other bitless bridles: there is a new one being advertised, but there is also something called a 'scawbrig'.
Or western, you can use a bosal or a sidepull.
The bit bank (http://www.magnolife.com/catalogue.html) is a good place to look up stuff like this, at least for english bits (but they don't have a scawbrig) (It does exists, I have one).
M
myEllie
Guest
I agree with Outrider. I have seen many horses ridden hackamores and have even ridden a few in one myself. I have never, ever heard of a hackamore breaking a horse's nose or even of giving a horse a bump on its nose. I guess that it is possible, anything is really, but I don't think that it is very likely as long as the rider has some idea of what to do.
Although I don't know much about hackamores, I haven't heard from any rider that it can break a horse's nose. I have examined a horse's skull and they are pretty strong! They are rough with each other too, in play.
The hackamore I use has shanks but the top is just a strap of leather with sheepskin around it. I find that the only problem I have with it is that he will sometimes run off and ignore any pressure. He is a very high-spirited Arab and loves to run.
The hackamore I use has shanks but the top is just a strap of leather with sheepskin around it. I find that the only problem I have with it is that he will sometimes run off and ignore any pressure. He is a very high-spirited Arab and loves to run.
hackmores
I have used hackmores alot, and I have never seen anything worse then sores from rubbing. I think that hackmores(not mechanical) are an excellent way to progress a horse from a snaffle to a shanked, ported bit. I have only used mechanical hackmores on rope horses who's mouths I didn't want damaged, and horses with soft mouths, or really hard mouths. I had a remedial rope horse who had been ridden in a chain mouth, and he thought all bits were torture. After I broke him to the snaffle, I taught him in a mech. Hackmore to save his mouth. I have never had any problems with them being too strong, but some horses consider them traps, and throw their heads and try to run out of the preesure. Sometimes that can be fixed with a tie-down, but a more permenant fix is to take tham back to the snaffle to get them to yeild to pressure.
At least thats my thoughts.
I have used hackmores alot, and I have never seen anything worse then sores from rubbing. I think that hackmores(not mechanical) are an excellent way to progress a horse from a snaffle to a shanked, ported bit. I have only used mechanical hackmores on rope horses who's mouths I didn't want damaged, and horses with soft mouths, or really hard mouths. I had a remedial rope horse who had been ridden in a chain mouth, and he thought all bits were torture. After I broke him to the snaffle, I taught him in a mech. Hackmore to save his mouth. I have never had any problems with them being too strong, but some horses consider them traps, and throw their heads and try to run out of the preesure. Sometimes that can be fixed with a tie-down, but a more permenant fix is to take tham back to the snaffle to get them to yeild to pressure.
At least thats my thoughts.
i went to see a horse for sale the other day (didn't ride though, because of my cold), and another prospective buyer was there. the horse was tacked up with a hackamore, and the other prospective buyer rode with it. the horse behaved pretty badly, tossing her head and bouncing around on her quarters, and i think it might have been because the rider was trying to get contact on the hackamore. i was looking at it closely and i saw how those metal things on the side (what're they called??) work, and i can see how it hurt the mare when the rider had a steady pull on the reins.
i might be trying this horse in a few days, and i don't want to treat her as badly as the rider did (although i'm sure it wasn't intentional, she just didn't know how to use it). how should a hackamore be used? i've used a bosal before, is it similar to one of those?
i might be trying this horse in a few days, and i don't want to treat her as badly as the rider did (although i'm sure it wasn't intentional, she just didn't know how to use it). how should a hackamore be used? i've used a bosal before, is it similar to one of those?
UPDATE - after i posted that i checked out a site about different kinds of hackamores, and i figured out that the hackamore this horse had was a mechanical hackamore. the website said the mechanical hackamore is "one of the most severe devises one can use on a horse". do you think that maybe this horse has some problems and that's why they were using a mechanical hackamore? should i avoid this horse? i'm so confused now!
Firstly, that hack is way too low on the muzzel of the horse. Is the person using a double set of reins or single? Looks like you have two places for reins there. Any hacks I've ever used only had one shank, not two. I wouldn't use this type personally. Happy Trails!
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Elfin
Guest
they were one set of reins .... ugh this is sounding very bad! good thing i wasn't very attached to this mare.
I'm glad to see this thread. I don't know anything about hackamores, but I'm checking out a new riding school that's just opened near me, and the owner told me they use a hackamore with one of the school horses to save her mouth. I should mention that the beginner who rides this mare is very closely supervised (right now she's the only student in the class).
I haven't seen the device yet, but I'm going to watch a lesson this weekend. What makes a hackamore more/less severe? What kinds of things should I look for? (I'll keep any opinions to myself while I'm there, of course - I just want to make sure this is a good place before I sign up for lessons ).
I haven't seen the device yet, but I'm going to watch a lesson this weekend. What makes a hackamore more/less severe? What kinds of things should I look for? (I'll keep any opinions to myself while I'm there, of course - I just want to make sure this is a good place before I sign up for lessons
).Hackmores
That mares hackmore is very badly adjusted, and if the rider was trying to maintain a constant feel on her mouth, that might have been causing her to throw her head. Any bit, hackmore or mechanical hackmore, can be severe when used roughly or incorrectly adjusted. Mechanical hackmores are excellent for riders with responsive aids. If you are asking a hores to back, and you release any rein pressure the instant you feel them step back, you should be ok using a hackmore. I have seen lesson horses using hackmores, and find that an acceptable alternative to the rough handling a horse might receive in a snaffle or kimberwick. I strongly approve of the use of hackmores as it requires a horse to be a little better trained in order for them to behave while wearing one. However, everything has a place and a time. Hackmores can be misused, but if you are using them as a standard, I wouldn't be concerned by their use. I would be more worried about a horse or trainer that uses a light weight bit with long shanks. These are more easily and commonly misused.
That mares hackmore is very badly adjusted, and if the rider was trying to maintain a constant feel on her mouth, that might have been causing her to throw her head. Any bit, hackmore or mechanical hackmore, can be severe when used roughly or incorrectly adjusted. Mechanical hackmores are excellent for riders with responsive aids. If you are asking a hores to back, and you release any rein pressure the instant you feel them step back, you should be ok using a hackmore. I have seen lesson horses using hackmores, and find that an acceptable alternative to the rough handling a horse might receive in a snaffle or kimberwick. I strongly approve of the use of hackmores as it requires a horse to be a little better trained in order for them to behave while wearing one. However, everything has a place and a time. Hackmores can be misused, but if you are using them as a standard, I wouldn't be concerned by their use. I would be more worried about a horse or trainer that uses a light weight bit with long shanks. These are more easily and commonly misused.
just to start this off it depends what hackamore you have a western,english or german hackamore. English hackamores are the gentilist while the german is the stronger. with the english on you could pull forever and make no head way while with the german one you could move your hand slightly and you could cause the horse
to stop. the hackamore works by putting pressure on the nose and poll of the horse. imagine it as a lever, the smaller the metal pieces are the gentler because the lower &bigger these are the amount of leverage caused is greater. if you have an english one try tightening the nose band or change the hackamore!!!!! try a western one and this doesn't work try the german. i know a friend who did this and ended up getting a bit for her 16 yr old connemara (a happy mouth to be exact) just try it and if it doesn't work try a happy mouth or a snaffle nothing to heavy as their mouths are gentle!!!!!
to stop. the hackamore works by putting pressure on the nose and poll of the horse. imagine it as a lever, the smaller the metal pieces are the gentler because the lower &bigger these are the amount of leverage caused is greater. if you have an english one try tightening the nose band or change the hackamore!!!!! try a western one and this doesn't work try the german. i know a friend who did this and ended up getting a bit for her 16 yr old connemara (a happy mouth to be exact) just try it and if it doesn't work try a happy mouth or a snaffle nothing to heavy as their mouths are gentle!!!!!
The instructor that I have been riding with have always used a hackamore. As I am a beginner, I ask her which she wants me to use ( the hackamore of bitted), she always tells me to use the hackamore. Why is this if I'm a beginner. I surely don't have soft hands!!!!
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