Severe bit or not?

newforest said:
Going back to the op I wouldn't use anything other than a snaffle on a twenty year old horse.
Looking at your posts you are trying to teach sliding stops to an older horse who is more than likely wanting a quieter life, and will have arthritic changes.
Enjoy your time with each other, have fun together, but leave the western curbs, stops and tight turns for your next younger horse.
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When we got her, we were expecting a horse ready to quiet down and retire from her 7-hour workdays. She is not lol. I try to stick to shorter rides, but she's always wanting to keep going longer and faster. I am concerned about the possibility of arthritis popping up soon (actually I expected it to be there already, she was a team roper and full-time ranch horse at one point) but so far it's not there. I probably will never compete with her, but as long as she's happy to have me learn how to train those things, I'll probably keep doing it.
And of course, she's a grouchy old mare with a lot of go, so I don't want to sell her in case she falls into the wrong hands, among other reasons. My mom doesn't want three horses and my dad still wants his own, so at the moment, I'm boxed in to either get a new one and have no clue about where she's going, or keep and enjoy her.
 
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I guess it depends on what they are calling a plate. To me, the Dr. Bristol has a plate, the French link does not. Banning a three piece mild bit makes no sense. Other than a Mullen, there is no milder mouthpiece unless you have two rings connected with fairy dust.
 
@LadyStetson that's not what pressure testing has shown, though I can't find the article now to put the link up. But again it depends on the shape of the shape of the mouth and the horse. I've had one and known a few who were better in a single link than french link. Mine actually looked like a headshaker he objected so strongly to a fl yet he was ok in a single link and happiest in a mullen though for him contact was usually lighter than people realised, more a case of keeping the knitting tidy most of the time even when schooling, any more than that was taken by him not me.
 
I’d be interested to see it. No disrespect intended, I don’t buy it. Some horses don’t like the link wiggling around on the tongue and do better with single joints or Mullen. I don’t see any way possible for a French link to apply more pressure than a single joint snaffle unless it is a thinner mouthpiece. Thinner mouthpieces will apply more pressure than their thicker counterparts, regardless of what type of bit.
 
I think, and like I said I can't find it now to check, that the issue was the pressure points from the joints and also if the plate was the right width for the tongue. Ultimately if you have a horse that's not happy with tongue pressure or doesn't like a fairly mobile bit then this isn't for them, but that's down to the horse rather than bit severity.
 
All snaffles apply pressure to the tongue, lips, and bars. So by that logic, the horse would not be suitable to ride in a snaffle, which was the start of this conversation lol. That I will agree with. Not all horses can or should ride in snaffles.

However… I’m still not with the French link argument. The tongue pressure would be less than a single joint, which is what it’s designed for, unless the but didn’t fit - which I could almost get behind in cases of a non typical shaped mouth or a badly made bit, which is not an issue with the French link as a species, it’s an issue with a specific bit or horse.
 
But can't you see how the difference in shape of the bit alters where the pressure is applied? A mullen with a decent curve (as opposed to a straight bar) gives even pressure over the mouth and some relief to bars which are a sensitive area, it's also a still bit which will encourage a horse to take a contact; a single joint will act more on the edges of the tongue and the bars, with potential palate pressure if used harshly; the french link will hopefully conform more to the shape of the horse's mouth but the joints can cause pressure points and the slightly wrap round action isn't liked by some as it gives tongue pressure that they can't relieve.

As I said before it ultimately comes down to the individual horse. Different mouthpieces and cheeks apply pressure to different parts of the mouth and in different ratios, some are more mobile than others too. It's a case of finding what's right for the horse and with so many options now available bit fitters have become very popular.
 
The physics of that doesn’t work. The link is loose and flat. It applies less pressure than a single joint by design. The single joint puts pressure back on the bars directly. The pressure to the bars is reduced due to the double joint in a french link.
If your argument is that there are two pressure points on the tongue instead of one, I suppose that’s true. There would be less pressure in both of those joints, by design, than a single joint. A Mullen mouth will distribute the pressure over the whole bit putting less pressure on all parts of the mouth.
 
Jane&Ziggy said:
I remember running across a blog entry by an American lady whose favourite reining mare had just died. The lady was in the habit of keeping the bridles of all her departed horses.

The blog entry was about this horse's bridle, which had an astonishingly severe spade bit. Honestly, it looked like an implement of torture. The mare was a much loved, very sensitive and highly trained horse who required hardly more than a thought of pressure on the rein, and she went best in this bit. It was a very interesting read.
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@Jane&Ziggy was it like this?
Screenshot_20230715-155134.png

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KaileeTheKool said:
How severe would this bit be considered? Compared to some, it seems pretty gentle, but I don't know if it is
102703764.jpg

Description:
Black satin pinchless bit
  • Level two
  • 6-1/2 in medium shank
Edit: After posting this, I went to find out what the bit levels even are. I found the Myler bitting system, and this doesn't really look like a level 2. Is it really?
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This is a cheap metlab bit. Not Myler. It really doesn't compare. Any bit can be severe in the hands of a rider. Or let's say a bit is only as severe as the hands holding it. This is meant for the lightest of cues through the rein. Weight of the rein also affects the bit and lightness of cues.
 
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A spade is for a finished bridle horse. It’s not severe at all when used correctly on a horse that is trained correctly to use it. Many many hours and years go into a horse before a spade is used.
 
LadyStetson said:
A spade is for a finished bridle horse. It’s not severe at all when used correctly on a horse that is trained correctly to use it. Many many hours and years go into a horse before a spade is used.
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Absolutely what the lady was saying in her blog, that the bit is for horses at the height of their training.

Just thinking though, does that indicate that wearing a spade bit, a horse of that sophistication would be able to perform better than if they were in a milder bit? If you rode such a horse in a snaffle (say), would the horse be less responsive?
 
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This is what I always wonder @Jane&Ziggy , if a horse is trained to respond to that light an aid then it should be doing so in any bit since the bit isn't the aid it's responding to?
 
They should respond equally to a lesser bit, but it won’t be to as light of an aid from the rider. A snaffle is a direct rein with no leverage, so if you put 1lb of force in you get 1lb of force out, when you add leverage you need to put less in to get the same 1lb out.
 
Jane&Ziggy said:
Absolutely what the lady was saying in her blog, that the bit is for horses at the height of their training.

Just thinking though, does that indicate that wearing a spade bit, a horse of that sophistication would be able to perform better than if they were in a milder bit? If you rode such a horse in a snaffle (say), would the horse be less responsive?
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I would say yes. If the horse is trained in a spade, first of all that’s a crap load of training , training stacked on training to ride in that bit. The cues for a spade are different and some of them are not possible with a snaffle bit. The spade has a specific purpose.

Would the mare ride in a snaffle - I’m sure she probably would and would ride around just fine. Would she ride as effectively in reining movements- no.
 
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