Garlic poisoning? Anyone heard of this?

DITZ

DITZ

New Member
Just done a search on MSN for Bute as looks like I need to try Fly on it and came across an article discussing bute and garlic poisoning. It didnt go into any detail as to what the effects where but it was definitely possible to overdose on garlic. As this is the ONLY thing that has changed in Fly's routine I'm wondering if it might be an idea to cut it out of his diet but before I ask YO I wondered if anyone else had heard about this and if so, what symptons had it caused??
 
Yes, garlic can cause damage to the red blood cells and therefore anaemia. There is a very good study on many herbal supplements by Wendy Pearson of Ontario Vet College. There is also evidence of spleen and liver damage with long term garlic use from other studies. The toxic dosage for fresh garlic is only something like 5 grams and I believe I've read that there is some concern that dried garlic (as in most supplements) contains more of the toxic substance (thiosulphate/N-propyl disulfide). In the Pearson study they also found that horses will eat well over a toxic dose if it is introduced into feed over time and also that even 4 weeks after the garlic is removed the haemaglobin had not returned back to normal levels. I've also read that there is some evidence that there may be a cumulative effect so using even low doses may have a toxic effect over time.

Signs of garlic poisoning are pretty much the same as anaemia - pale gums, lethargy but also dark urine.
 
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Let me get this right before I get into a new horse owner panic... are you talking about garlic in itself as a supplement or what I feed my horse, HappyHoof mint and garlic? :eek:
 
I don't know about bucking - the most common cause of bucking is saddle fit IMHO however general malaise - yes, anaemia just like in humans would make the horse feel generally lazy and apathetic. I'd have to look at the copy I printed out but I think that the Pearson study was over 60 or maybe 80 days only and they were going to do a follow up study on lose doses over longer periods of time.

Lots of the advice on giving horses garlic is based on human benefits from garlic. However horses aren't humans, so whenever giving any supplement always do your research and lots of it. One recommendation or claim is never enough. - So don't just believe me!! :D I used to give Imp garlic and kelp and have now stopped both (I give kelp occassionally) and yes, during one blood test he was very anaemic. He was also low in selenium so the vet said that the lack of selenium had caused the anaemia, however I would have been giving garlic at that time so to be safe I also stopped the garlic. Next bloods were fine. I get him tested each year when his vaccinations are done - its quite expensive but I think well worth it (and I probably save that money over a year from not buying stupid supplements! ;) )
 
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Erm..... just playing devil's advocate here but I have to say that garlic does seem to be a fashion thing at the moment. Years ago when I had my first pony I wouldn't have dreamed of feeding him garlic yet he survived just fine!

However, I was interested to read a small article in the current Your Horse mag (p6) - sadly next to the ghastly ladies standy-uppy pee thingy mentioned in another posting - anyway, this paragraph relates a study that shows how horses actually like quite spicy foods - fenugreek and cumin are mentioned, however, when given the choice, most horses avoided and turned away from the garlic flavoured feeds. I wonder if the advantages of garlic can be found in alternative supplements? Anyone?

For the record, Cherry is on Happy Hoof (with mint and garlic) and will quite happily walk away if I add too much additional garlic to her feed... she would rather go hungry and that's saying something!!
 
I don't think it causes bucking my horse was on garlic during the summer and she didn't buck

the horse feel generally lazy and apathetic
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but this she did do :D

I only fed amba garlic because i heard that it keeps the flies which it didn't so i didn't see the reason to buy so i've stopped. Never heard of garlic posioning though that's new.
 
I've always put garlic in my horse's feed but no more than 2 scoops a day. After reading this thread about garlic i'm considering not bothering once i've run out, but i always thought that garlic helped avoid colds as it does with us, is this not right then? I'm now assuming that garlic is no good for horses? I'm now a bit confused.
 
Imp said:
Let me get this right before I get into a new horse owner panic... are you talking about garlic in itself as a supplement or what I feed my horse, HappyHoof mint and garlic? :eek:
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garlic as a supplement.

Virtuallyhorses, saddle fit has already been eliminated, as has teeth and back. next step for me is to try bute for a week to see if bucking stops ergo proving/disproving pain.

Can see why it wouldnt necessarily cause bucking per se, but if horse is feeling low then I can believe that the last thing it wants to do is work. Bucking first came on when schooled and now happening in canter on hacks. He is always standing at the back of the stable too, never over the door even though he is in a barn with 2 others.:(
 
What about causing spookiness and apparent panic attacks? A friend at the yard is having prblems with her mare who is on garlic. Just a thought.
 
I followed the link Ditz posted elsewhere and did the maths - the dosage they go problems at was 0.2g PER KG twice daily.

So I calculated it for a 300kg pony/horse - and they'd be getting 60g twice a day .... plus their work indicated it was a reversible effect (tho not sure they fed it long term).

A lot of "medicines" have 2 sides to them - digitalis - used for treating heart conditions but is also the active ingredient in deadly nightshade. There are loads of similar examples....

(alcohol is toxic - how many of you are going to give up drink ??)
 
cvb said:
(alcohol is toxic - how many of you are going to give up drink ??)
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So true!

I think Garlic in feeds is becoming unpopular these days, this isn't the 1st time I have heard things against feeding it and have since stopped myself, although my mare has respiratory benefits from Garlic I was concerned I would eventually cause a secondary problem.
 
I read about this recently actually. Apparently horses can't metabolize garlic properly or break down whatever it is that's toxic (I missed the word) in it.
 
If you would like to read the summary of the research papers it is at http://www.equine-congress.com/documents/proceedings/2004/Pearson_proceedings.pdf

"Over the past 6 years our research laboratory has worked to generate new data on herbs for a wide variety of horse health issues, including immune function, respiratory disease, osteoarthritis, and dermatitis."

This paper is fairly easy to read and summarises the research done at Ontario into a number of herbs with their common uses. It is interesting reading and as with most good research it tries not to make claims or answer questions that weren't in the study. It freely acknowledges that there are still many unanswered questions - including what effect long term low dose garlic use has. However given that there is no scientific basis for most of the claims made about many herbs at least this is a start.
 
I suppose one of the questions we should ask ourselves when feeding supplements is:

'Would our horses freely seek this herb/plant/root out if they were free-ranging in a natural environment?'

I guess that garlic would not be, but other plant species such as goosegrass (Cleavers) and hawthorn would.

cvb 'A lot of "medicines" have 2 sides to them - digitalis - used for treating heart conditions but is also the active ingredient in deadly nightshade.'

Digitalis = foxglove, a cardiac glycoside
Deadly Nightshade/Belladonna = an alkoloid atropine substance
 
Well I have spoken to vets who are adamant that it is poisonous to horses as are onions and garlic to dogs.

Last time this subject was posted and I posted my concerns that garlic was not a thing horses would naturally eat I was shot down in flames and told to shut up because a number of folk had been feeding it for years! ;) ;) ;)

We don't feed it.

Horses tend to be grazers not browsers or rooters. They'd have to root for garlic.
 
Very interesting, I have often wondered as it has a similar structure to onions and I know they are not good news.
I however do feed it through the winter months and strongly belive it has some really worth while benifits, having spent a fortune with the vet trying to get mud fever under control this autum, yet within days (possibily a week) of starting him back on garlic it was completely gone and has not reoccured since with no further care (No washing, brushing, cleaning, creams or salves)
and the weather has only got wetter since!
I agree, its like many things you have to weigh up the good and the bad and decide if it is worth the risk.

J x
 
Jessey said:
Very interesting, I have often wondered as it has a similar structure to onions and I know they are not good news.
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onions and garlic are closely related but NOT the same - the allium "family" is a big one. For example, aloe vera is in the same family....
 
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