Horses are HORSES

chev said:
But it was always something done at a yard, if you wanted a decent horse at the end of it; no-one in their right mind would buy an untouched three year old and back it themselves with no prior experience in the belief that that's the best way to bond/do away with other people's problems/learn. But the sales here now are packed with people doing just that; had lessons as a child, never schooled a youngster in their lives let alone actually started one from scratch and the first horse they buy is a gawky looking unhandled two year old that they plan on riding as soon as they can catch the damn thing and tack it up.
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scary isnt it?
you know these horses are going to end up with problems and then they are on the slippery slope-unless they are lucky and brought by someone who can help them work through the problems.

i want to buy a foal for my next horse, and although i have had regular lessons since childhood and owned 3 horses before (one of which was a yearling) and worked full time at a riding school for 4 years i will still be taking full advantage of any exerianced help i can.
 
You know why Frances and I stopped the riding school? ONe of the reasons apart from the insurance was the total lack of "get up and go" from the kids.

If it didn't happen NOW they didn't want to try again and perfect/practice or learn.

If a horse decided he was going to do something the kid's would let them, often Mafnús would decide the kid on his back was only an ornament so he'd go and find something to eat, and they'd sit there and let him without even lifting a finger to try and stop him. We were lucky we had some SUPERB novice and beginer horses, so much so that when we moved them onto a horse you needed to ride they had no interest, they'd sit on Kvikur, Whiffy, Fat Cob all day and press buttons and things would happen, they didn't want to find out how to "RIDE" a horse , they were only interested in sitting on automaton!

In the end just to get the kids to react we would give them a goat on a leadrein each, I'd set them up on the track and then tell them they could ride if they could keep the goat away from me in the middle with a bucket of food. There were few kids who even tried to get the goat to stay on the track, most just let the rope and the goat go.

I think maybe some folk think that Frances and I are too hard on our horses, I am a great beleiver in the "thin end of the wedge" horses test the boundaries and if you let them put a toe over you need to re-establish that boundary INSTANTLY. This is why we have such nice horses, they know what they can and cannot get away with and feel safe and secure. I be god, I'll sort things all they have to do is look to me and life is hunky dory!

Folk think they have to treat a horse like another human, and he'll love you the same way, the horse then walks all over them because the boundaries have not been kept 100% stable.

I work quietly around the horses all the time, until they become rude and mannerless, then they get roared at and if necessary a slap. Nothing more than any herd leader would do!
 
WE'LL I'VE ONLY HAD HORSES FOR 4 YRS AND I'VE HAD A BROKEN FOOT, EYE SOCKET, COXIX, AND PELVIS. HASN'T PUT ME OFF IN FACT MY NEW HORSE IS 17'2hh WE ALL FALL OFF AND YES HORSES ARE HORSES AND I LOVE IT ALL:cool:
 
The increasing security on yards is killing all the fun of it in my mind.
When my mum learned to ride it was a case of 'heres a horse, see you in a bit'. She used to ride bareback down the road in her schoolclothes on one horse, leading another to turn them out!
When I was younger and was too young for lessons our YO (we keep our horses at a riding school) used to just lend my mum a horse and let me ride around on it. If it snowed we had our lesson in the field, wading through knee deep snow on the ponies, and we used to have little shows and stuff.
My mum reminded me the other day of when I borrowed an ancient riding school pony for a treasure hunt on our yard. The minute I picked up the map the horse, who usually had to be forced into a trot, took off flat out across the field with me clinging round its neck and my mum chasing me :p. Everyone thought it was hilarious that the horse could move that fast!
Our Pony Club used to run its camps at chatsworth, camping down by the lake with the horses tethered overnight outside the tents.
Gradually though there had become less and less that our YO will allow us to do (because of insurance etc). Ponies are now no longer to leave the yard (obviously liveries still can). Kids have to sign in and out when they help out, we have warning signs all over saying 'Horses can be unpredictable, do not approach without permission'.
I arrived on the yard recently to find a new yard girl mucking my horse out with him tied up. I asked her about it and she was really surprised - 'but that's how you HAVE to do it'. I dont think my horse has ever been tied up in the 6yrs Ive had him and he was not impressed.
The horse I school trod on my foot recently and it was the worst pain Ive ever been in. I felt sick, faint and white lights started popping in front of my eyes as I slid down the wall. When I told his owner she was really apologetic which surprised me, it wasnt her fault that her horse has no spacial awareness! It never occured to me to blame anyone except the horse (idiot) and myself (should be more used to handling youngsters!). My toe is still black 6months later, wont bend and has no feeling on the top but I still have no plans to sue :p.
If I fall off I wouldnt even consider suing my riding school - it says on a big sign in the office that 'RIDING IS A RISK SPORT WHICH YOU PARTICIPATE IN AT YOUR OWN RISK', people need to realise that horses are half a ton of recently domesticated animal, not My Little Ponies.

xxx
 
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We'll I've Been On The Ground Looking Up Often. I've Had Many Fractures And I Agree Horses Will Be Horses And I Love It All:d
 
Ditto - a riding school horse ate my little finger :rolleyes: and broke it, that baby horse broke my toe, my TB has knocked me out twice, kicked me 3 times and thrown me over his head a fair few times, my cob has knocked me out once, thrown me off twice, fallen on me twice, leapt into my face (the most potentially bad accident, I cant believe I got out of that one with an intact face), Ive fallen off riding school horses more times than I can count - once landing on my head (in the only puddle in the school) and getting knocked unconscious.
If ever there was a parent wanting to start their dear daughter off in the world of ponies they ought to come chat to us lot :p.


xxx
 
Nowadays folk just go out a buy foals like you'd go and buy a puppy, thinking it's gonna be easy. Foals are absolutely adorable creatures to have. They're wonderful to teach things to and take for long walks. They love to see new things and be the centre of things. It's so nice to have a pony from a foal and see it grow into a gentle and well mannered three year old and, as it's been with you all this time, is usually (well mine was) unphased by you climbing onto its back.
However, foals need specialised care from people who have good experience of horses. They need to meet people, see as much as you can show them and be disciplined cos believe me even an undisciplined foal can deliver a very powerful kick! They are not for people that have only spent about 2 years at a riding school. I loved my foals and it was a joy to see them growing into well adjusted adult ponies that had confidence. Sadly, I wont be buying any more foals, too old. My present pony is rising 5 and is coming along beautifully. So I say, if you want the 'almost perfect horse or pony', if you have the time, patience and experience buy a foal and watch it grow. It's a very special feeling when you mount him/her for the first time and think 'this is the result of all MY work'!!! Hopefully, he/she wont put in a massive buck!!!!
Sorry this is long.
 
I arrived on the yard recently to find a new yard girl mucking my horse out with him tied up. I asked her about it and she was really surprised - 'but that's how you HAVE to do it'.
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On the contrary, I think this was actually fairly sensible. It's not how you HAVE to do it, but if I was a new girl mucking out horses I didn't know, I'd tie them up, or tie them up outside until I had better gauged their temperament. Of course, when you know the horse, its not always the sensible thing to do.

Oxowoman, whilst your attitude is very positive, you don't think that the number of fractures could be highlighting some not-particularly commonsense situations you're getting yourself into? After all, professional horsepeople usually get more business when they have their limbs intact.

Wally, your riding school has always sounded like it was brilliant. I just cannot sympathise with these children, I know I got annoyed as a youngster at a riding school at the other children who weren't completely absorbed in being a better rider. I would beg borrow and steal any pony going, especially if I could have the ride out hunting. I read horse books, usually non-fiction instructional, for all of the time I wasn't at the stables. But most of all, my school actually let me develop my knowledge in a comprehensive way.

I think I am very lucky that I have done most of my stable management training with people who are at the very top end of the BHS themselves, actually writing the manual of horsemanship, whose way of working was firstly safe for the horse, secondly safe for the human and third was not always rigid in it's application.
 
Horses are HORSES, agree totally.
Personally I tend to take with a pinch of salt some of the things said/threads that alarm me, agree we live in a world full of arm chair critics and were paying the price for it{risk assesment,arm chair experts but too few real experts, how did mankind get this far? why all the mistakes}Horses can be very dangerous in fractions of a second and calm just as quickly with the right approach, unless there are other issues{more rare }
Some threads are very innocent and so honest, the owner has lost their way or some times lost the plot completely.I don't think novice owners have a exclusive on bad things,just look at some of the stallion horror stories out there, in very experienced hands too.How many livery yards {message boards too}see more action in the tack room/ pm board , from gossips and loving owners{makes me want to throw up just thinking about some of these places}not all are that bad,but enough are.

That some people are happy not to be speed merchants,ride in the rain or jump or even accept that a healthy horse can do far more than we think, be they shoed or not,bitless or treeless,the only thing that matters is the horses health,safety and their riders too.

I have had quiet a bit of 'ear bending' for buying a young and unbroken horse,frankly I don't give a monkeys what horsy people say.D's been saved from the dreadful shameful UK horse sales room episode of his life and that's good enough reason to own a healthy horse,but of course there is a lot more to it than that.
He should be broken and backed for his age, should he?,why ? .I'm happy he can be just a horse and do ground work safely with me, were going further than that,little by little.If ever theres a heinz 57 inhand show I would be happy one day he could show,but in my eyes he will be every bit as good as the 'papered' horses,but will they see things the same as me,doubt it some how.
This horse rears,kicks,bites and double barrels,so I'm told, cant and will not lift a foot.
I know for a fact that loading a young horse without a lead rope would be considered madness by some of you,yet if you study 'natural horsemanship' you can do this, be safe and have a happy horse too, and actually do it yourself without being an expert.
I'm not remarkable,cant claim to be horsy{heaven forbid! if I ever join that club because there is a lot more I would like to say about that lot. I'm sure there would be a shortage of dog food if I had my way and that's just the starter}
I don't have years of expert knowledge,but can say from my years of study and being with good teachers that my horse will not do any of the things he did or would not do.My advise is lean towards the NH route if your new and you will get this far safely.But remember that horses can rear,kick,bite etc,and usually its because of us they do this.
I certainly would recommend Heather Moffett's teachings too,in fact no 1 on my list.
My personal belief{based on my long career working on complex machinery in dangerous environments}never be afraid to seek help,study and work with people who you like, you will not go far wrong,what ever you do,be you a novice or expert! because in my real job im a expert {rare indeed}and I can say you never stop learning and will never know it all.
I think empathy, patience and common sense are something you have or don't have.
Phew! don't be offended anyone, just my own very personal opinions.
 
RachelEvent - I think the point I was trying to make was what you said - in all my years of being on my yard I dont think anyone has ever tied my horse up, although it is the correct thing to do, because no-one ever really did it 'by the book'. Now though it is important to always do things exactly correctly, even to the point of new helper on our yard having induction days where they are assessed and given 'health and safety training' etc.
Before, you just went in and did it, now new helpers are only approaching the horses they have been told are okay, tying them up, not leading them alone etc etc. I wasnt saying she ws wrong for doing so, just trying to illustrate the huge difference in the way people treat horses, and the change in the way YOs have to look at things.

Having said that though I went to help at an animal sanctuary recently and was completely lost in the lack of interest they had in me! Eventually they said 'yeah... take a pony for a walk down the road or something', so I did so, and when I got back they said 'that wasnt very far was it??' despite the fact the pony I had just dragged 10mins down the road was chronically hopping lame. They then said 'you can ride the grey if you want, just take him out' I said 'I dont have my hat' and they said 'so? Just take him'. I said 'I think Im a little big (this pony was about 11hh, welsh), and the HUGE guy there said 'oh I ride him you'll be fine'.
I found out later (having refused to ride) that the pony was ex-LR and an absolute demon unless someone was walking with him.
:eek:

xxx
 
Fred:
That some people are happy not to be speed merchants,ride in the rain or jump or even accept that a healthy horse can do far more than we think, be they shoed or not,bitless or treeless,the only thing that matters is the horses health,safety and their riders too.
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Here here.
 
I havnt read all the posts. When i first got my horse she neede a lot of schooling but all i wanted to do was jump and take her to shows. Then after a few months a stopped what i was doing just started to walk her round when i rode her and make her bending and actually riding her properly. And she has come on loads. Where as before she wasn't. I have learned that the horse world isn't all about shows and things. She is a brill horse now but we still have our off days. I am now very slowly bringing on a 10 year old who hasnt hardly ever cantered with a ride on her back. We are taking things very slowly and still walking lots and lots. These things aren't to be rushed :D
Also about youngsters i no some people who have 3 year olds and are jumping them at shows. I don't think this is right but just my opinion.
 
Wally, your riding school has always sounded like it was brilliant. I just cannot sympathise with these children, I know I got annoyed as a youngster at a riding school at the other children who weren't completely absorbed in being a better rider. I would beg borrow and steal any pony going, especially if I could have the ride out hunting. I read horse books, usually non-fiction instructional, for all of the time I wasn't at the stables. But most of all, my school actually let me develop my knowledge in a comprehensive way.
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Thats exactly what I wanted to say :) Wally, your originality is amazing!

I was one of the ultimately obsessed kids, helped out (hmmm, still do :D) as often as I possibly could, read every horse book back to front a million times. My parents made me chose b/w going on a riding holiday I loved every so often, or riding lessons every week. I chose the riding holiday, and didnt eat lunch at school (made something at home) so that I could save up my £2 a day lunch money on riding lessons!

I think the key is, I wanted to do it, it wasnt my parents shoving me on a horse because they thought it was a good hobby, it was my shere determination that allowed me to continue.

The riding holiday- well, i fell off A LOT! everytime we jumped, did bareback :D Thats where I learnt to school green horses, yes at a young age, however I dont feel I did (or the RS did) anything wrong, as I was a capable rider, schooling the ponies the staff couldnt fit on, and only with a member of staff shouting every step of the way :D

I am completely gutted at the way this has all turned out. At my RS we have no exciting "problem ponies" for me to sit on :p and due to this the other day I realised my confidence has slowly deteriorated! :( Im by no means unconfident, but now id prefer if the horse Im riding doesnt take off with no control whatsoever, or chucks me off, whereas before Id be hoping it would happen :rolleyes: (think that might be the growing old at 17 thing again Rachel!)

Riding school ponies these days are a godsend, and if there not they get sold on very quickly :( These horses are so different what many people get as their first horse, that they dont know what to do with something thats not a "dead to the leg" horse with a mouth!

Ill stop... rant over :D
 
I agree with pretty much everything on this thread. I do find it quite shocking how many inexperienced people take on youngsters or unbroken horses,a nd think that they'll 'learn and grow together'

Im quite ashamed to say :o really that I bought my first horse after about 1 year of riding - 2 lessons a week. Probably was overhorsed to start with. Fortunately though, my mum is a riding instructor, worked on numerous yards, worked for malcolm pyrah and generally has a lot of experience. She helped me bring on Murphy, and myself, and I can safley say, Murphy is a fun forward going ride, but so safe you could sit a baby on him, he is a true gent. So i've learned a lot with them, and have a good horse as the end result. suppose I was one of the lucky few, but then again, I had my mum's experience to help, and really, he was mine and my mum;s ghorse to start with. Now, I ride him, and my mum has an OTTB. I'm lucky really, as although I'm not the most experienced, I have constant help from someone who is.
 
I agree with a lot of what has been said too. I am also probably guilty of some of it too:o I am taking it slowly with training of Frits and am getting naughty Mysty to work better, I don't follow any particular training discipline, just my own mixture of commonsense and what I have learnt growing up around horses:)
 
I agree with a heck of a lot of what's been said so far (so won't repeat it :) ).

I've seen quite a few threads recently that have made me go :eek: one as recently as yesterday advocating withholding hay and water as a method of catching a difficult to catch horse. What is all the more shocking is that others are saying 'go for it' or agreeing rather than trying to show people that there is a different way to go. My views on novice owners are already widely know so I won't go there ;)

I'm not an expert by any means but thankfully know enough to be able to generally sort the BS from the useful advice. Unfortunately not everyone who reads the board does have the experience of horsey life because they're just not allowed it these days. No bareback, no exercises like 'round the world', no touching to show where the aid should be given, no this, no that, no the other .... nanny state be damned :mad:

Unfortunately we have no way of knowing people's 'credentials' on here. I know quite a few people both on the internet and in real life who spout all kinds of 'wisdom' (usually from books which they devour by the gazillion) but whose knowledge and experience isn't as much as people listening to them would think. It partly makes me laugh because they obviously have their own issues but also saddens me that there is obviously a NEED for knowledge but it's not always easy to find.

Oh well ... another grumpy old git!
 
Another pet-peeve, when people say that their horses need extra blankets because it's too cold or when they need more grain or they can't be with other horses because they'll get hurt.

This is when i really want to yell in their faces, THEY ARE HORSES!!!!!
IN THE WILD THEY DON"T HAVE BLANKETS OR GRAIN AND THEY DEAL WITH BEING AROUND OTHER HORSES!!!!!:mad:
 
agree totally with this thread... my riding school is very much 'old school', and the owner and other instructors are strict (in a good way) about the horses and with pupils... also if you fall of you have to get straight back on (if you can)...

they have a very good rep as far as i gather in the local area :)
 
I'm amazed that people withhold water and feed,havent seen that post thank G.
People mock 'natural horsemanship' and novice owners,but we all have to start somewhere.You can't beat working and helping out with good people and 'the quality teachers'.
I know for a fact with good help,advise and reading you can have a good,safe and responsible future with a young horse.
I can lead D anywhere off a lead rope,zig zag around the field,ask to stand etc etc,apply sensible pressure in all those 'hot' spots with out issue,we are now progressing to lead rope work and other important basic stuff{the basics are the most important start,and don't be fooled that basics are just 'basic'.
We don't use sticks or carry,whips,our work is patience and understanding,reward and rest.Catch him, he comes to call and not a carrott or treat in site,but he has a reward;)
 
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