parelli-not so natural.

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Mark Rodney

For information of the readers and the author, Mark Rodney is not a Parelli Instructor. His instructor status was terminated some time ago for failing to comply with our professional guidelines.

Parelli Natural Horsemanship is very successful in resolving problems and issues, however like anything, its' implementation is only as good as the practitioner and all techniques can be abused in the wrong hands.

It is a shame that you have an opinion of Parelli taken from a former instructor who should not have been using or associating with our good reputation and name.

Richard Marriott
Parelli Natural Horsemanship
 
Reply to your questions about tommy's feet.
Tommy has never had his back feet picked out or in any way touched by a farrier.Yet the farrier says from general observation that they are in really good shape and that the hoof has become hardy and more resistant than a shod hoof.The only thing I have to watch is his heels becoming to short if I do a lot of road work with him. As for sedating him , I have had a vet out to sedate him , and he got to the point where he couldn't even stand up, and he still went nuts if we touched his feet.Yet his front feet are fine and easy to handle!He is a tad strange.
 
so why was mark's professional status removed then?For beating the living crap out of horses and killing there spirit sounds about right.He still has a big following for his blue horse branch out from what I can see, people really do take what he says as the absolute gospel truth , which is slightly alarming.I think he should be left in a round pen with a few psychotic horses who should beat the crap outta him.
 
Mark Rodney

For information of the readers and the author, Mark Rodney is not a Parelli Instructor. His instructor status was terminated some time ago for failing to comply with our professional guidelines.

Parelli Natural Horsemanship is very successful in resolving problems and issues, however like anything, its' implementation is only as good as the practitioner and all techniques can be abused in the wrong hands.

It is a shame that you have an opinion of Parelli taken from a former instructor who should not have been using or associating with our good reputation and name.

Richard Marriott
Parelli Natural Horsemanship
 
Hi helen- really sorry to hear about your and your horse's bad experience. My friend has been doing Parelli with one of her horses for a year or so, and I've seen her/been forced to watch her doing all the 'games' with her. The 'carrot stick' is in no way, shape or form, meant to be used as a whip. It's called a 'carrot stick' for a reason- horses like carrots!!!!! I don't like to see people using whips at all, and think that there are other means to solving things. But anyway, I think you had a lot of bad luck with that guy- he sounds like a complete tw*t, and any people that were fascinated by his actions were probably pretentious fools! God knows how they treat their own horses!!! Poor things!!
Patience is really important with Parelli and that bloke probably just lost it. Just cos he was using the stick that way, doesn't mean Parelli is bad because i know it's been great for my friend's horse. She used to storm through trailers but now she wanders in aimlessly, and she's become more chilled as well.
All the best for the future,

Sarah
 
We had a horse with a foot phobia, it took ages just to be able to touch his feet, as for picking them up....FORGET IT!

We didn't resort to anything fancy, just plain old fashioned common sense and faith in your own ability to trust what you horse tells you is a genuine fear and not just naughtyness.

Advance and retreat, never overlaoding him, always working up to the comfort zone and backing off with plenty of reward. You can now shoe him with one arm tied behind your back, but it took about 3 years to get to this stage, no quick fixes just quiet common sense and patience.

It is possible and you can do it, Horses have such a strong sense of fair play, your poor boy will have lost faith in humans due to his unfair walloping, poor lamb.
 
Hello again, well today I just could not help thinking about your horse, Im just lost why people beat horse's or any animal.
Many years ago I started a Rogues gallery at work, I collected components from machinery that had been damaged by guys who 'tinker' and then deny it, despite the evidence!
Anyway, I was walking over Cannock Chase and I found this shoe,
I wanted to add it to my rogues gallery, even though at that time I had never sat on horses back in my life.I saved the shoe for my rogues gallery{must be a engineer's thing :o }I recon ive had this shoe 7 years{cringe in embaresment!}
You would think, bearing in mind how important to horse feet are, that guy would not make matters worse:( it must be a big worry.
Anyway, I have taken two photo's of the shoe I found so that you can see and maybe give opinion.Helen at least you won't have this with your horses rear feet.
Can a owner be charged with neglect when horses shoe are this bad.
I can't help but think that shoe in this state must have caused horse pain.
I know im of topic a bit here, but its because I wonder how people and horse cope when feet can't be shoed or trimed.
I want to show the shoe to the guy who lives at grandparents next door, but he's hardly ever not working.He does a lot of work for vets after horses have been shoed real bad too by other farriers.
Fred.
Hope you don't mind, but what do you think about shoe in this state.
 

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I do think this kind of incident illustrates very clearly how gullible people can be at times. I've heard so many tales of how audiences have sat and watched trainers (of all kinds, not just Natural Horsemen) pull horses about, run them into the ground, and generally abuse them in the pretence that they know what they're doing - and these twits sit there and take it all in and can't seem to recognise abuse when they see it. (At least Helen did!) The fact that someone sets him- (or her-) self up as belonging to this or that school of horsemanship seems to brainwash people into believing that they MUST be the bee's knees, and it's just not the case.

When will folk learn to be more discerning? WHEN will they learn to tell the difference between a horse that's happily accepting and trying it's best, and one that's scared and confused and being forced? You really wouldn't think it was THAT difficult :(

I do think it's a shame that people like this guy spoil it for the others who genuinely care about horses and do a really good job. I wouldn't hesitate to send any horse of mine to Sue, for example, because she doesn't do anything to extremes and she isn't out to convince the world that there's only one way to do things - Parelli is just another tool in her box and she knows when it's the right one for the job :)
 
Neither Pat Parelli nor any other Natural Horsemanship techniques advocate nor condone beating a horse. I'm sorry but I also don't buy the 'but all the people would look at me funny' excuse for standing by and letting it happen. Although as Ros says it happens a lot

Ros it was one of the things that struck me about Heather Moffats book actually - she describes several incidents in her book where she says she witnessed 'such-and-such' happenning ...but never a word about taking the person to task.

and yes, I do 'step in' I've even received a nice black eye on one occasion - such is life

You don't say how long ago this happenned or what you did about it afterwards either - like confronting this guy afterwards for an explaination, writing to Pat Parelli regarding this person (since he carries\or carried the PP endorsement) or perhaps bringing it to the attention of authorities such as the ILPH or SPCA
 

Folks will learn to be more discerning when they are taught to. So many people come into horses with very little to no knowledge of them. Most people I know who get interested in learning natural horsemanship are mature riders who buy a horse and then have no idea. In actual fact I would say the truth is that ignorance runs much further in the horse world than just with these innocent beginners. Many riding schools perpetuate sloppy riding and horse handling as I am sure anyone with much experience in that area would be aware. In my opinion it is not the fault of anyone but the 'expert' that these people cannot pick up on what is going on.

I think it is important to remember that being clued into horses is something that takes alot of knowledge, skills and experience...and even then most people don't really get it. If novices are presented with an 'expert' (especially one with honed marketing skills) it is natural that most people would respect that. It is a part of human culture to respect those with more knowledge. Only the most delving minds can see through some of the less reputable experts. Of course the more experience, knowledge and skill you have with horses the easier it is to spot when things aren't right. This is what education is for.

I remember when I started riding at 6 years old and the day I started I watched as my dad was asked to assist with getting a horse onto the float. I watched as 5 strong men attempted to push, lift, and force this horse into the float. After 2 hours the horse flipped over backwards, then ripped it's legs open as it jumped out of the yard. My dad was always bothered by this but he helped out because as someone who knew nothing about horses he trusted the words of a man who had been around horse all his life. If he had known better of course he would not have been involved in such a horrible situation, but how was he to know that there was an alternative.

This is why I am such a strong supporter of educating people and becoming an educator. If people are ignorant it is the role of those wiser to teach them. There will always be ignorant people, if there weren't then there would be no need for instructors and trainers. More unfortunately there will also always be bad trainers and instructors...because for one reason or another they think they are above everyone else.
 
I do think you're right, Shiny, in that this kind of ignorance goes very deep and is found at all levels. One of the most common questions we hear is "How can I tell if my horse is playing me up or if he has a genuine problem?" Learning to read a horse does come with time and experience, but unless you have access to a large number and wide variety of horses, as lots of us hobby riders don't, you just don't get that kind of experience and there's no shame in admitting that you need some help to set you on the way. Unfortunately there are actually a lot of experts out there who don't see the need for that kind of codswallop, and will sometimes even teach us to ignore the signals the horse is trying to give us.

That's one of the things I like best about Heather - she always takes the horse into the equation (and gives him the benefit of the doubt) and her teaching is as much geared to making the horse happy and comfortable in his job as it is to helping the rider. She often makes a point on her courses of including videos of various well-known riders, which she uses to show pupils how to spot signs of tension, to differentiate between horses that are happy and relaxed and those which are unhappy and being forced. Pity more instructors don't do that.

To try and answer your question, Viv, Heather is in a difficult position. Being brave enough to air your beliefs openly doesn't always make you very popular with the people you're disagreeing with, so those who perpetrate this ignorance and cruelty are less likely to listen to Heather than most. In fact, ordinary people like you and me stand a better chance in those situations - if we were to stop admiring and patronising these people it would hit their careers and their pockets, and *that* would upset them, I'm sure!

So although Heather would *never* stand by and allow anything really untoward to happen without trying to stop it, there are, I think, times when she knows full well that the only thing she can do is walk away. Like Mark Rashid's "Old Man".
 
I would not call myself experienced but I have been around horses a fair few years. I went to see a "dry " Parelli demo a few years ago and was not that impressed. however they reckon, as do all the equine behaviourists that they work by talking the horse's language. It must be a language with lots of different dialects! Imho the horse is a prey animal and we are predators. It also weighs about 10x our weight so physical force might beat it into submission but long term willing acceptance and trust - perhaps not. As Heather says, "if something feels wrong for your horse it probably is". If it seems wrong for a horse you don't know ask why it is happening as different horses, like children, need different handling. My two are chalk and cheese. If you don't like the answer you get esp at a demo, walking out quietly and with dignity says far more than creating. You never know lots of folks may be objecting inside but do not want to be the first to make a fuss. A mass exodus is publicity no showman wants!
Read ask learn and listen. Paul Belaskis' autobigraphy is amazing!
 
I have two highly strung hotblood horses (Lusitanos) away at the moment being started by Ingela Sainsbury who is a Parelli Instructor and colt starter. I have been to watch her training them two days every week since they have been there. One is a four year old stallion and the other is a nine year old mare with a lot of hang ups who was never started or handled much untill now.

They have been treated appropriately and with uttmost professionalism and are making rapid progress. Yes I have seen the stallion have a 'phase 4' when he chose to behave in a disrespectfull manner, but only after Ingela was sure that he knew what was expected of him and that he was not frightened, just disrespectfull. This is the crux of the matter. A good horse trainer can tell the difference between when the horse is frightened and when it is disrespectfull and use the four phases of firmness in an appropriate manner. A bad one cannot tell the difference and uses the techniques regardless and will skip the 'ask'(phase 1 and 2) and go straight to the 'tell( phase 3 and 4) causing a lot of problems in the process.

Amateurs very often cannot tell the difference between when the horse is being disrespectfull and when it is genuinely frightened and this can cause dissent with the ''I never hit my horse brigade'' when they see a true professional giving the disrespecfull horse that is trying to walk all over them a phase 4. It is Natural for a higher ranking horse to give a disrespectfull lower ranking horse a serious phase 4 (biting,kicking or both) if it ignores the previous two requests and the warning. Most people miss the signs and signals and only just see the warning before the kick/bite or not at all untill the teeth sink in.

I know Mark Rodney. He was a junior Parelli Instructor for a while, but as Richard Marriott has pointed out he failed to comply with their standards and left some time ago. It sounds like the combination of his horsemanship and people skills were not up to the task on this particular occassion that is being complained about. I have seen him do some good work, but it is not necessarily along Parelli lines and doctrine and you shouldn't condem the Parelli Organisation and Instructors because of it.
 
:mad:
I take back what i've said in previos comments cos today the bloody horse certainly would not load.Mind you last time he was loaded was to escape the parelli man , so I don't really blame him.
 
Ros, Janet, Shiny you have made a lot of excellent points and Ros I understand your point completely about 'prominent people' being easier to dismiss as 'cranks' (if I can paraphrase your response) :)

Although most of us may only have one horse, I do think there are a lot of opportunities to gain more experience, albeit secondhand - through books and videos or clinics or educational shows like Equitana's (or Equus in the UK??) and keeping an open mind to LOTS of different people's ideas. I do like to dip into as many different experiences as possible and see what 'adds up' with my own gut feel\logic.

That's why its so nice to come here are meet up with people who have much more experience, listen to all sorts of views and have my own challenged.

"There's more stupidity in the Universe than Hydrogen" - Frank Zappa :D

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)
 
Originally posted by virtuallyhorses
Although most of us may only have one horse, I do think there are a lot of opportunities to gain more experience, albeit secondhand - through books and videos or clinics or educational shows like Equitana's (or Equus in the UK??) and keeping an open mind to LOTS of different people's ideas. I do like to dip into as many different experiences as possible and see what 'adds up' with my own gut feel\logic.

That's why its so nice to come here are meet up with people who have much more experience, listen to all sorts of views and have my own challenged.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I do! I love hearing other peoples suggestions and solutions, as what works on one horse may not work on another. They are all individuals.

And another quote (not sure who said it):
We can only see with open eyes.
We can only hear with open ears.
We can only think with open minds.
 
I've watched and read about all types of "natural horsemanship" and although I've not tried all I do understand the basis to be Ask not Tell !!

My mare, as some of you may recall, was very difficult to handle, she had a lot of bad memories etc etc and I tried many methods of training. The most successful has been Cathy Tindall at the Holisitc Horse Centre, in 18 months (yes I know it is a long time) she has turned my mare around, mostly we have done shiatsu with my mare, TTouch and aromatherapy. Ziggs had a lot of hang ups with the past, obviously she couldn't tell us but somehow we have worked through most of them and she is a really pleasant animal to work with. Neroli Oil helps with "past trauma" - don't laugh it does actually help! She used to hate the farrier - my farrier tells me she is in the top ten for best behaved! The only fear she cannot deal with yet is her fear of vehicles in any shape or form - something dreadful happened but we are progressing, she can at least go into her stable if a tractor is parked at the opposite end of the yard - previously she would have refused to go anywhere that she could see it!

Last night the girls were well wound up with this wind and driving rain, so they were brought in and both hand TTouch, ears and gums done and a sniff of Lavender oil which really helped to calm them.

Try it - what have you got to loose? Cathy was Ziggs last chance, so really I guess I am saying find someone who is recommended by a friend or on this site - it is the best publicity anyone can get and you are more likely to find someone genuine. Don't give up - help your horse to help you understand - you'll get there.

Good Luck
 
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