Side reins - ETA what about a bungee?

Jane&Ziggy

Jane&Ziggy

Jane&Sid these days!
Apr 30, 2010
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Surrey Hills
Hi folks.

My new sharer did some good work with Ziggy on the long reins today. He is very on the forehand and he doesn't know how to soften: he can, but he doesn't seem to know that it's needed when he is working.

She has asked me if I would mind her lunging him in side reins. I don't have any, and my immediate reaction was, "Mm, I'm not keen on gadgets." But then I wondered: if the side reins weren't too tight would they be that bad? Should I change my mind?

What do you all think? A variety of views would be very welcome.
 
The question really is whether you want Ziggy lunged, whether it will achieve anything you want for him and anything that you cant achieve from his back, i.e. while riding him. Plus whether you approve of lunging horses in circles, something that has its critics.
As you know, OH and I have an RI who does a lot of teaching of pupils on the lunge. The horses used for these lessons are lunged in side reins to provide a tiny bit of contact as the human students are often not touching the reins at all. The only lunge lessons I have had without side reins were bareback lessons where there was nothing to fix the reins to!
Does our RI use side reins to train and teach the horses? Not really. The horses are taught to use their hind legs by moving forward, plus countless warm up exercises and twists and turns designed to help horses bring their hind legs under.
At the hacking yard it is different. Few of the ponies we hack know the meaning of collection or of going in an outline - and ten years ago I thought that was somehow detrimental to their health. No longer. Horses that were out hacking day after day when I first went o the yard 12 years ago are still going strong. Of the cohort that arrived with Maisie, she is the only one retired and that is due to sarcoids/cancer, not to a bad back.
In your place, I would take less notice of what other people say they think you should do, and concentrate more on what you would like from Ziggy and the things about him that you would like to improve to increase your pleasure and safety out hacking. BHS trained people and conventional UK dressage people seem to have very different and somewhat odd priorities awarding points for how a horse carries itself.
I got the impression that you liked the Mary Wanless lessons because they were encouraging Ziggie to carry himself well as a reslt of the way you put selective pressure on his back while riding? Mark Rashid's style of riding is as different from that as chalk from cheese. There is absolutely no way you can carry out the recommendations of one trainer without neglecting or transgressing the methods of another. Rashid does help people find softness in their horses as they ride, but not through lunging and not through side reins. It does no harm to add layers to what we know and try.
But now you have a your sharer's approach being inserted into Ziggy's life.
You say "he doesn't know how to soften: he can, but he doesn't seem to know that it's needed when he is working." Is this you ta.lking or your new shaer bossing you about? Why is it needed while he is working? Is it needed even when there is no rider asking for it? And are these your own thoughts or are they borrowed from a sharer - who is entitled to her view but not entitled to take over your Ziggy and apply her ideas to him unless they coincide with your own. What was the "good work" she did with Ziggy on the long reins, who thought it was good? And was it something you asked her to do or that you could not have done as well yourself?
If I had a horse and if I had a sharer who had a valid reason for lunging my horse and whose method of lunging pleased me, I would agree to the side reins because that is the way I have been taught. But I would also expect to do part of that lunging work myself and to be fully involved. I wouldnt share my horse with someone who made me question my own competence and capabilities as a horse owner. That is not the role of a sharer. As owner of Ziggy, you probably have other people in that role - qualified and experienced instructors you trust from whom you can get guidance over Ziggy when you need it.
 
I don't use side reins but I've got no real reason why not! I just no longer ever do anything with my horses if I don't have a clear idea of what I am trying to get out of it. And I just don't know enough about these various gadgets to know whether I like them or loathe them. I look forward to reading lots of replies so I can have more of a clue.
 
Thank you so much for your concern @Skib - let me assure you that my sharer is no more capable of bullying me than a minnow is of eating a pike! She is a very timid girl, but she has had a lot of BHS training (she studied for 2 years at Merrist Wood) and is very traditional school in the way she does things. She suggested the side reins very meekly and I said no: but I am now wondering if they might do any good, because I am ignorant of them.

By "any good" I mean help Ziggy to work more forward from behind, because (a) he is so much nicer to ride when he goes this way and (b) because it will help his health by taking more weight on his back feet and off his post-laminitic front feet. Having written this down, I am not sure why side reins would help him to do this, and I agree with @KP nut that I won't use them or let anybody else use them if I don't understand. Think of my reaction when I saw those dressage horses with their heads strapped in! I believe that if he comes forward right from behind, the rest will follow.

There's of course a bigger issue when someone shares your horse about how much you trust them. I watched my sharer long reining Ziggy to begin with. She had him on a shorter rein than I would have, but that's something my RI badgers me about so I know she is more right than me in that way; Zoggy went forward easily for her and showed no discomfort or bracing so he seemed happy with the contact. She is quiet and consistent and she did actually manage to get some lateral steps out of him, which I have never done with long reins alone (or indeed anything except my hands on his body and a treat!). So I felt happy leaving her to it. My RI has seen her ride and thinks she is very good, with a quiet seat and soft hands. And I don't at all mind Ziggy being lunged as long as it is done my way, where the lunger walks around as much as the horse; I don't think that will be a problem.

I'm genuinely curious to know if anyone on here can tell me why side reins would help him. If nobody can - no side reins. Simples!
 
I have relatively recently started lunging Raf in side reins - something I never intended or thought I would have to do, more because I thought this sort of thing was for 'serious' people who knew what they were doing than because I have any strong objection to them. I've had to start doing it on the physio's recommendation, but it's not just about bringing Raf's giraffe-like head down, it's also about stopping him swinging his head to the outside to use as a counterbalance when on a circle. And this has all come about because he had a sore back, probably due to the saddle, and some muscle wastage on his back, so the aim is to build his back muscles up. We've also been given pole exercises to help.

I don't have the side reins tight, they certainly don't pull Raf's head down to his chest but they make it just impossible to stick his head in the air and he finds the best way to get release is soften his neck and bring his nose down and then his back comes up. He also has an elasticated tail bandage tied around his bottom to encourage him to work from behind. I must admit it's my least favourite exercise that we have to do but, the physio saw a big difference on her last visit and (touch wood) he's going really well at the moment - I've particularly noticed a difference in walk when I've been riding - so I suppose it's a necessary evil for us.

I'm sure it wouldn't do Ziggy any harm to lunge in side reins, as long as they didn't pull his head right in and sessions were kept short because his muscles will ache if he isn't used to it. Whether it will do any good I suppose only time would tell. Be interested to hear what you decide!
 
Ive used side reins on lunge before to help the horse work within a contact and make it step under well. The problem being if they are too loose they give jerky contact which is pointless and you dont want the horses neck overbent from them being too tight either. They have to be on a light contact when used, they are a useful training aid but only if used correctly. As for schooling, draw reins again they're a great training aid but only if used with light hands. x
 
I use a bungee rather than side reins, mostly because the blasted things flapped about so much and seemed quite fixed (even elasticated ones) the bungee goes over the poll, through the bit and attaches to the girth, either between the legs or at the sides. I use it long so it simply guides Jess not to go round like a giraffe, it's not used to pull her into a position, it also gives her a soft contact to work in to.
I think so long as it's used to give a contact for them to work up to it can be helpful, too tight and it can be awful.
 
I have vienna sidereins I have used off and on. I learned to use them with Andi at One place she had some training.
They have slide give to them - not fixed hard to one side or the other. You can change direction
with them.
 
I only recently learned the reasons for lungeing in side reins. As Bodshi says above, they will bend the wrong way to counterbalance on a circle so side reins help support and guide them to find their balance bending correctly around a circle, which in turn will lead to them being lighter when ridden as they won't lean. After being a happy hacker for years, I'm only now just learning about correct bend on a circle and lungeing will help to develop this from the ground so that transferring to ridden isn't so difficult. I always use a lunge cavesson with the line on the centre ring and will "half halt" Albi to encourage him to bend inwards and to learn to find his balance. It was a bit of an "Ohhhhhh" revelation as he'd been falling in on the right rein and falling out on the left when being lunged. When ridden, he bends a lot easier on the right rein but finds it more difficult on the left..... now I'm beginning to understand (it's only taken 50+ years!!! :p )
 
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Jane, I have looked to see if I can find any pics of side reins being used in a lunge lesson.
I hope you realise that these side reins were not tight? Even at a top dressage centre where I had some lessons, the pics show when in trot, the contact is through the reins in my hands, The side reins hang with a loop in them. Only in walk do they really prevent the horse sticking his nose right forward. Unfortunately OH seems to have had his first lessons before we took digital pics.
 
Oh gosh yes I know they shouldn't be tight. I believe that as the horse learns self carriage you can gradually tighten them - I think of those beautiful cantering horses that vaulters use, or the liberty horses they used to have at the circus. But the purpose of them is to stop him from sticking his head up and letting his neck bulge, and also (since I have been educated by people on here) to encourage him to bend, rather than motorbike, which is his natural way to turn.
 
Personally I huge fan of Long lining, and I think its very understated! Me, I would say a fat no to lunging, I hate it with a passion, especially if they are just going round and round in circles, and your also limited for time with it. Long lines you can do so much with.
 
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When I first started having lessons with Ben, my hands were not perfect and I could not keep them still enough to maintain a consistent contact. We got him moving from behind very well, but all the energy was falling out of the front and we was going on his forehand because I wasn't containing it. He is a very big strong horse and had never been taught to work correctly and had no idea of a contact. His nose therefore used to poke out almost horizontally infront of him and matter how well he worked from behind, the contact was no there.

Under my instructors guidance we used side reins in 2 ways. Firstly for short periods (10 minutes) during my lesson she attached them from underneath the girth between his legs to the bit. They were pretty loose but the idea was to get him used to consistent rein contact, and to get me used to how this felt.

At the same time my homework was to lunge him in side reins. This was so I could create lots of energy from behind on the lunge, and the side reins would act like my hands and give him a contact to work into. My lunge lessons were short. I spent about 5 minutes warming up with no side reins. Did 5 minutes work with the side reins on one rein, changed the rein, did 5 minutes work with side reins on the other rein and then 5 minutes cool down with them off.

The results were very quick and he soon got the idea of the contact and his way of going improved. The side reins and lunging also had the benefit of building up his muscles as he had previously developed muscles in all the wrong places and physically found it difficult to work into the contact.

It's obviously important that the side reins are fitted correctly. I took his normal head position at rest (when he was standing in the yard) and attached the side reins just an inch or so shorter than this. Therefore his head wasn't pulled in at all.

If your sharer has BHS stage 2 then she would have used side reins before and will know what she is doing. I would trust her to give it a try with him. You can always go and watch and if you don't like what you see then put a stop to it. In my experience side reins have been a really useful tool and as long as they are used correctly I can't see how they could cause any damage.
 
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I don't understand why lunging on a circle with a fixed rein on each side would encourage bend? Nor in what circumstances bending becomes an alternative to what you call motor biking. Our RI taught us very little about steering to start with. She said that where the nose of the horse goes the rest of his body is likely to follow. The diameter of our ridden circles was set by contact on the outside rein. I currently ride a mare who holds her head to the left. This actually tends to create a drift to the right when I turn her to the left across the diagonal, picture leg yield.
The pics of my grand daughters first ever canter show that the side reins are providing contact, the only contact other than the lunge line, as the reins in her motionless hands are hanging loose. So in canter the side reins would discourage motor biking, in the sense of collecting the canter a little. Walk in side reins I think is more problematic. If the horse lowers its head the face is drawn back behind the vertical , my pics from the dressage school show this.
I personally have a problem here as I have spent hours being lunged and in side reins,I can think of nothing better for my riding. Yet I don't believe in lunging on a circle.
 
See the explanations confuse me. Side reins are inert so how can they apply a consistent contact when the horse is moving? And where with side reins is the release where you soften to the horse to say 'yes'. Don't horses drop behind the vertical to get released which isn't what I want. I'm not a good enough rider to maintain a consistent contact either so replacing my hands with a better option is appealing but I don't see how it works really. Not saying it doesn't I just don't understand how.
 
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