Side reins - ETA what about a bungee?

To achieve bend you must first achieve straightness which work in side reins can help. When riding we work a horse from inside leg to outside hand, when lunging we drive from inside to the outside rein which the side rein enables, allowing a correct bend to develop.
A horse who holds their head left but moves right is likely to be falling out through the shoulder than leg yeilding.
 
I don't think I understand @Jessey . In what way does the side rein enable the lunging? Would one rein work? Sorry if I am being dim!

And @KP nut , I agree about walk. When Ziggy is walking in a consistent contact (even if loose), my hands move forward and back gently with his movement; the side reins wouldn't do that, would they? So how can they maintain a consistent contact in a gait where the horse's head is in constant movement?
 
The side reins provide an even contact to encourage strightness, the bend starts and finishes at the same points as a straight horse, so the bend comes through the whole body rather than just the head/neck.
The idea with side reins/bungee/de gouge/chambon is, as I understand it, to establish a contact or control point for the energy created, the driving position from the center allows you to create the bend (in place of the inside leg).
Im on my phone atm as the Internet is down but when thats back up I'll try to find a visual example :D
 
over the years I have used side reins occasionally on the lunge and tried a bungee thing. Moet did not like the bungee thing tbh and kept pushing into it - I thought it was going to snap!! (though it was one that went through the bit and over the poll - so perhaps it was the poll pressure she didn't like).

I have slightly elasticated side reins though so perhaps they are ok....but I feel if 'too loose' there is no point in my opinion, but if too tight can cause a false outline, so play around with the length to find the optimum for the horse - but I sure would let your sharer have a go whilst your around to see how Ziggy reacts.

Actually I haven't needed any gadgets to teach Moet to soften and work in an outline (though I have tried sometimes with the side reins etc, it never really worked for us). My RI taught her first whilst I was onboard he held her reins and put the amount of contact on to create a soften in Moet and then released as a reward. Then increased the length of time he asked for her to stay soft, if she went to walk backwards I had to put my leg on to tell her no I don't want to go back. Actually Mark Rashid did this exact process with a cob in his clinic last week that I watched and the cob by the end of his session was walking/trotting/transitioning with a 'soft' look (not true outline as such as cob hadn't learned how to push properly into the contact and power forward - but massive difference compared to when they arrived and did not know any softness at all)

Treats also worked wonders for Moet - I asked for softness and if she gave it she got a treat :) I am planning on doing the same with Major today when I ride him in the school
 
As a rookie to this bending malarkey I now realise how a "proper" bend feels when ridden.... that softening that happens. It's not something you can describe, it is something you have to feel....

I don't have the side reins that tight when lungeing either, certainly not to hoik his head into a false outline. They are at a good length to help support and balance him if he needs it, but otherwise they don't interfere too much. Sorry this is blurred but I think it illustrates rather well. Outside rein is supporting and his inner ear is listening to my ask. He's lost a lot of weight since this pic.... this was back in March!! (Trust me to have one that gets fat OVER winter!!! :rolleyes: )

 
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Skib said:
I don't understand why lunging on a circle with a fixed rein on each side would encourage bend? Nor in what circumstances bending becomes an alternative to what you call motor biking.
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Skib - in Raf's case he was actually swinging his head to the outside when on a left circle because that is how he had learned to balance himself (possibly to avoid saddle related pain), so basically he was going round the circle bending the opposite way. The side reins aren't so tight that he can't move his head at all, but they stop him swinging his head right out. It will obviously take time and practice for him to build up the correct muscle and relearn the feel of bending correctly to the left, so it's not a miracle cure, but the reins give a much more consistent contact than my hands would, and the lunge line creates a more consistent circle than my riding does too.

KP nut said:
See the explanations confuse me. Side reins are inert so how can they apply a consistent contact when the horse is moving? And where with side reins is the release where you soften to the horse to say 'yes'. Don't horses drop behind the vertical to get released which isn't what I want. I'm not a good enough rider to maintain a consistent contact either so replacing my hands with a better option is appealing but I don't see how it works really. Not saying it doesn't I just don't understand how.
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This is something I struggle with too. I don't know how it works with other horses but Raf doesn't have to drop behind the vertical to get released, he just has to lower his head and bend his neck into a lovely swan shape, and then he starts mouthing too. When he starts trying to stretch his head down I stop and detach the reins to give him a break because I think it must mean that his muscles are starting to ache.

Even I can see a difference in his neck now - it used to be much larger on the right than the left, with a bunch of big tight muscles on the right. Now it looks much more similar on both sides, although there's still a way to go.
 
juliecwuk said:
Actually Mark Rashid did this exact process with a cob in his clinic last week that I watched
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Can I have your Rashid notes too please? If you made any. I am going to Hampshire Friday and Saturday.
I dont think I made any notes last year. The first time ever I didnt make copious notes. I must have got too old and fed up with all the transcription when I got home!
 
KP nut said:
See the explanations confuse me. Side reins are inert so how can they apply a consistent contact when the horse is moving? And where with side reins is the release where you soften to the horse to say 'yes'. Don't horses drop behind the vertical to get released which isn't what I want. I'm not a good enough rider to maintain a consistent contact either so replacing my hands with a better option is appealing but I don't see how it works really. Not saying it doesn't I just don't understand how.
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The side reins are elasticated so there will be more pressure when the horse pokes his nose forward, and will release when the horse works correctly.
 
We use elasticated inserts in reins for horse in the RS. Just like side reins they avoid the uneven contact provided by novice riders. A far as the original question I would be wary of anyone lunging with or without side reins or other aids unless I was comfortable with their basic lunging skills. Too many people can make a horse go in a circle but not really understand or work it. As far as BHS exam lunging goes Stage 2 criteria is lunging for exercise,only by Stage 4 are candidate expected to improve/educate the horse on the lunge. Lunging is an art not often taught but as important as ridden schooling.
 
This thread seems a bit hybrid with diversions to the current Rashid clinics. My apologies to those I have misled in ths thread. I have found a further notebook and find that I did after all make notes at the 2014 Hampshire clinic, tho I never typed them up.
I will add just this. Mark Rashid has no method of horsemanship. There is no course. He was in the past annoyed that a NR friend of mine wrote up some of his clinics in a way that failed to match his intentions.
I have pointed out that when any teacher gives a public performance or lecture, the reception will vary from person to person. Each person in the audience is at a different point in their own riding career, and those who come with gaps n their knowledge will make use of what is immediately relevant to their own needs. It is entirely subjective.
 
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Monty Roberts has a nice explanation of the bend issues and videos online of it. When asked to travel on a circle on a loose or lunged basis, the horse will instinctively put its nose and its bum to the wall, and tummy into the circle to balance. They "banana" in order to manage the task in hand. This develops tension in poll, neck, back and quarters and this is the wrong muscle development pattern. Additionally due to the way a lunge is often fastened the horse braces against the line.

Side reins offer the horse support laterally by providing a contact. The inside can be used marginally shorter to encourage the inside flex and thus the correct bend.

They also provide some contact for the horse to work into. Almost all horses will get faster when asked for impulsion, and will run faster, with a contact to work into that impulsion can be gathered up and thus engagement from behind begins.

Lastly, when riding we use the reins/legs to prevent the horse falling out through the shoulder, side reins provide a lateral support to help prevent this.

Lunge line is usually clipped to bit or through bit ring over poll to other bit. This is not a true mimic of rein contact and this addition of side reins provide that.

All that said, for me, best practice would be to lunge on two lines - as if long lining but stood to the inside. However it's tricky and unless very experienced, difficult to achieve a consistent contact :)
 
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