OK, I have no idea what you're on about, I have looked under my swell and is says 55 16, if that doesn't answer your question and I have no idea how these things are coded, call Continental, Western Saddler or someone who can help you.
Western saddle frustration....Do you ride western??
- Thread starter chickitta
- Start date
Well you have enlightened me - I never knew those numbers were stamped there and had I come across them would never have known what they stood for!! Don't 'get' them if you know what I mean, but nice to know what they signify! 
Hi - you could always get one made, depending on where you are based. i had no end of trouble finding a saddle to fit my very heavy shouldered QH and now have a Brian Borrer saddle which i'm very pleased with. PM if you want details.
55 is the tree size and 16 is the saddle size but just to make life confusing, someone is selling a Equiflex saddle model 149 with a 55 tree and they are saying that it a semi to full quarter horse bars , it is no wonder that getting the right saddle can be somewhat of a challenge/nightmare.....
. It's tuff to find saddles in the US, I can only imagine what folks far away must go through.
Thanks Jack.. will check them out.. Gosh.. if you find it tough in US.. what chance do we have
I can only imagine what folks far away must go through. Thanks Jack.. will check them out.. Gosh
.. if you find it tough in US.. what chance do we have
Hi Mazza, do all western saddles have the codes then..? Is that what you need to do.. find the right size tree?? Gosh.. it's all very technical and confusing
Hi Chickitta, as far as I know Continental Saddlery who do the Equiflex range do have these numbers to help identify what tree is fitted and also seat size. The Billy Cook saddle I am selling does have a serial number underneath but there is no where you can send this info to. The other saddle manufactured by Pools in Germany does not have any form of identification at all. Feel the need to lie down in a very dark room when it comes to trying to get a saddle that will fit my horse. Getting close to double figures now.....
mazza.. gosh.. like opening a can of worms once you start down the western route it sounds like Can I ask why your selling your saddle? I'm hoping i'm going to get one and stick with it...
Can I ask why your selling your saddle? I'm hoping i'm going to get one and stick with it... The Billy Cook I bought a couple of years ago when I first started riding western and used it on QH and Appaloosa's. When I bought my horse last year (Argentinian criollo) it was too tight on his shoulders so bought the saddle he was used to being ridden in but have now found out thru saddle fitter and my own suspicions that this was tight and also bridging on his back.
I can only sympathize with your choices of western saddles in the UK. I do hope that with the rapid growth of international reining more good saddles (western)will become available overseas.
Mazza mentions a Billy Cook she has for sale. There are two different manufacturers of Billy Cook saddles with one being considered better quality than the other. What type of horse do you ride? If it's a "wide glide" type horse a Billy Cook might work.
Keep on, keepin on
Jack
Levi what do you mean by a 'wide glide' type of horse? And what are the two different manufacturers of Billy Cooks? Just interested as I recently bought a Billy Cook equitation seat saddle (yay!!) Sulphur OK marked and I rather like it. It's for my tall and pretty slight (regular bar) pleasure-type QH (sorry, hope I'm not hijacking post?)
No prob campbh.. i'm interested in what everyone has to say.. gives me more insight when choosing my own saddle
No prob campbh.. i'm interested in what everyone has to say.. gives me more insight when choosing my own saddle
Thank you chickitta! If it's any consolation... well-fitting Western saddles can be found; and I although I went through 3 different English & trail saddles with my polo pony before turning to Western, the first saddle I bought for her still fits really well and I love it
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If you know a western saddle fitter they should be able to point you in the right direction as far as what type of bars and gullet your horse needs. Every saddle company has different size bars, I don't think there really is a "standard" in the industry. Have your horse fitted, and then start looking at the saddle maker. You want GOOD quality leather, it doesn't have to be A1 premium, but you definitely don't want the stuff that's cured w/bull urine. It's stiff, creaky, and NEVER breaks in. You want a wood tree IMO, some are covered in different materials and that's fine, but I think a wood core is the way to go. I don't know what type of horse you have or how long the back is but that is a consideration as well. I can't use anything but a barrel saddle for the horses I ride because they're so short backed they can't have any skirt at all.
Problem with international reining is that it's almost exclusively Bob's, Circle-Y and Billy Cook (Sulfur OK) for the tight budgets
Some venture to Continental and Pullman but anything else just doesn't get a look-in, I think it's elitist snobbery
In the words of 'Xenephon" a horse should have "two backs". I think of it as a "rain trough" down the spine.
Horses built like this have very "fat/thick" withers and a wide "flat" back. Many stock horse breeds (qh, paint, appy) will have these characteristics. An entirely different type of "back" has a "boney spine" which extends up a very narrow and high withers. I think of this type of back as a "razer blade". (ride em bareback, you'll feel the difference ) The horse with the fat/wide back will likely need a wider and lower gullet while the boney/skinny type may need a narrower but higher gullet. I don't have any good pics saddle fit, but here is MyMare modeling her 'Wade Tree', Billy Cook ranch saddle which is manufactured in Oklahoma. Another manufacture of "Billy Cook" is the Longhorn saddle company in Grenville Texas. Longhorn holds the patent on these Texas made saddles, since Billy Cook used to work for Longhorn. It's a long story but generally, the Oklahoma saddles are considered the better saddle (this is Billy Cooks present company) and usually cost a bit more than the Texas made ones.
Note how this saddle fits with no pads. just a saddle blanket. This is all the padding I use with this horse and saddle. If a saddle needs wedges or extra padding, it likely doesn't fit the horse in my experience. I will tell you that there is nobody I will trust to fit my saddle but myself or the saddles maker. I've never heard of a "saddle fitter" myself.
Campbh, I'm not surprised you like your saddle. Billy Cooks are not a custom saddle. They are factory made but I've had good luck with the two Billy Cooks we own.
Keep on, keepin on
Jack
It is hard to explain to people that a $1500.00 saddle is not really a "good saddle".
In the USA today I see a lot of Dale Chavez, Reinsman, Cactus saddles being used. These are the higher end of "factory made" and cost in the $2000-$2500 range. At the $2500 price you will find the "custom" (single maker) saddles become available. The skys the limit, this one was $15000.00 if I remember correctly. 
I can't afford it but "MyMare" thinks it would help me look "pretty". I think she's insulting me.
Keep on, keepin on
Jack
western-saddler
New Member
Note how this saddle fits with no pads. just a saddle blanket. This is all the padding I use with this horse and saddle. If a saddle needs wedges or extra padding, it likely doesn't fit the horse in my experience. I will tell you that there is nobody I will trust to fit my saddle but myself or the saddles maker. I've never heard of a "saddle fitter" myself.
Well I am one of those 'saddle fitters' you speak of
I would like to add a few comments....Firstly, I always recommend people use a good pad and never just a blanket as a blanket does not offer any shock absorption for the horse. English saddles have flocking and therefore the shock absorption built in, western saddles do not. That said I always fit the saddle without any pad to ensure it fits without a pad first.
Secondly, most of the saddles over here are made in Germany or the USA so impossible to get the makers to fit. I had a maker make a saddle for my horse years ago and it really did not even nearly fit
Thirdly, I see many saddles that do not fit and cause damage. It is bandied around far too much that western saddles are easy to fit.
Lastly, I am happy to use (and do use) Port Lewis Impression Pads to ensure an even distribution of pressure. It is surprising what they show!
Interesting post!
BTW the 149 with a 55 tree is a XFQHB saddle. Someone must have done a special order and needed the 55 tree but wanted the 149 saddle, hence the confusion.
The problem I have seen time and again is that the Circle Y's and the Billy Cooks tend not to fit the english variety of breeds, shapes and sizes. They are built too straight.
Regarding only using wooden trees - whilst I do see they are a very superior tree material, they make the saddle far too heavy for many people. The Equiflex tree offers a little more flexibility than a wooden tree covered in rawhide (but not much more) but is so much lighter.
I won’t hold that against you.
My point is that people need to “take responsibility” and “have some self confidence” when it comes to saddle fitting. We now have a well known “clinician” who has a saddle fitter traveling with him and charging extra for a “fitting”. IMO, most people need to put the dang things on a horse and start “feeling and looking” at the saddle and fit themselves. I do use a thicker “saddle pad” with some horses. I prefer “thin” pads that fit ,and find it works very well with some “fat withered, flat backed” western horses. For the high withered “razorback” I find a thicker pad is usually necessary. If a saddles too narrow padding may just compound the problem. But then, “That’s horses” .
Steele’s saddle trees are “factory made” and found on many factory saddles in the $1000.00 and down range. They make four trees, one of which is the “Equi-Flex”. I have a few saddles that are built on Steele Saddle Tree Company saddles, including one “Equi-Flex” (Bighorn saddle co.) which isn‘t particularly light for a trail saddle. . I much prefer a wooden tree myself and find that “pine” is fine for light duty. Steele doesn’t make any trees for heavy duty.
http://www.steelesaddletreellc.com/S.html
Here’s another link showing saddle tree pics. The first pic is already “rawhide” covered so it doesn’t look like wood, but it is. A western saddle tree is made of four essential parts, two bars, one pommel, one cantle which are “joined” together and then wrapped in “wet leather” to shrink and tighten.
http://www.cowboyshowcase.com/saddlesteps.htm
Some of you might enjoy checking the links also. “Cowboy Lore” is enjoyable reading and there are some good pics scattered around.
Keep on, keeping on
Jack
newrider.com