Buddy seat

[mikh]

Bah, no way imo. But to be honest, one of the problems with the gene pool is that there are no lifeguards. Said person using a buddy seat with their own small child........ well I think if an accident where to happen that would be their loss!

Got to page 5 and gave up reading.

How about the price of fish now...???

 

[Chilli]

That really does depend on the treeless saddle, rider and horse. The treeless saddle has to fit, and if it does I have seen pressures from a Port Lewis, with a treeless where you would not think anyone had been riding at all! THe Port Lewis cannot show pressures that are not there, equally if a pressure is there it will not hide it. The treeless saddles do not work for all but they can indeed work very well for some.

I have to agree about the pressure in the wrong place. When vets and true experts are saying again and again not to put any weight in the unsupported area of the back behind the last rib, I tend to believe the 'experts'

I think you’ll find if you ask the “true experts” a specific question about load baring on that part of the back, not about saddle fit in that part of the back you are going to get a different answer to the one you are expecting.

The horse supports great pressure on that part of it’s back for short bursts as the stallion scrabbles aboard.

And it also supports much smaller pressures for longer periods.

It is the weakest part of the back but the issues regarding saddle fit protruding beyond the last rib, is about the greater movement behind the last rib and the saddle getting in the way of movement, pressuring and restricting the movement of the muscles and pelvice etc in that area iirc. The saddle sitting on top of the rib cage gets in the way of nothing other than possibly the shoulders dependant on saddle design.

I can honestly say that I have not seen one Pliance graph yet showing good weight distribution of ANY saddle while jumping!

Jumping is easy it’s the landing that’s the problem, but you can still have better and worse http://www.wowsaddles.com/flair/Flair Pressure Testing.pdf

I think unless you have found a breed of horse with ribs going all the way back under the buddy seat then, according to vets, physios and biomechanic 'experts' this saddle WILL do harm. How can it not? As was said earlier - even a saddle 1" too long causes problems - some horses are just more stoic than others.

The weakest part really cannot take pressure there and it is not dependent on breed or conformation (unless there is a new breed with infinite ribs that I am unaware of)? Some of the shorter backed horses may well be a little stronger in the loins but not strong enough to carry weight from the research I have read. I cannot comment on the cavalry horses as I have not seen their backs myself neither am I aware how long the horses ridden career lasted to be able to judge how the soldiers affected the horses. Same with the vaulting horse.

I’m afraid nature disagrees with you

I think you’ll find “experts” too if you ask them specific questions about the exo-muscular system not just about saddle fit.

But back to the Buddy, why wouldn’t it interfere with movements of the pelvice etc causing the issues everyone agrees about with saddles going beyond the last rib?

I would surmise it’s because it’s not part of the saddle and can move independently of the saddles with the movement form the pelvice like saddle bags can and may be ok for limited periods with a light load.

I’d have to make some phone calls to firm up my thoughts but I’m wrong so no point

Crumpets anyone?

 

[old_woman]

So, as they say in ole blighty... on yer bike dear.

Assumptions, assumptions ... and lack of clear comprehension, deary.

I mentioned 'the flatter cities of Northern Europe'.

Perhaps I should have been more specific, in order to assist those lacking knowledge of geography and culture, and taken care to identify the cities of Northern Europe most commonly associated with mass cycling - most of the cities and the road network of the Netherlands, the road network and several cities in Denmark, parts of Belgium, parts of north-west Germany, Helsinki, Malmö ... nowhere in the UK even rates a mention.

However, I am sure that many hundred thousands of Dutch, German and Scandinavian bankers, builders, teachers, technicians and others, of all sexes, ages and status, would be amused if they were to read that they are all lumped together as dippy-hippy mothers!

The UK's transport planning seeks to make the use of the public highway by non-motorised users to be as uncomfortable, unpleasant and even dangerous as possible and as I already stated in the post to which you have so inaccurately replied, the UK is following the US closely in their efforts to prove that car is king.

By the way, as far as I am aware, I was not carried on a bike in any fashion while I was young. We lived in a very hilly area. Any brain damage from which I suffer comes from falling off horses and ponies in the days before modern protective helmets were even invented, not from being dropped off a bike from a great height. And it's a physical impossibility for my knickers to get in a twist ...

So you're even inaccurate in your sarky comments, too!

 

[western-saddler]

Interesting replies Chilli.

I have a few queries though. The "true experts" you speak of - could I have names so that I may learn from them their experience too?

Mares support for short bursts (stallions don't - is there any difference in load carrying between girls and boys?). We usually ride for long bursts. Also, where the stallion mostly rests is behind the lumbo-sacral area and is in fact quite a strong 'pillar', and that is the same in all the photos you put up. The horse is not moving like it does while being ridden. Lastly, there is no one riding the horse at the same time as the stallion - so very different.

I have not seen the backs of pack animals, or horses that regularly carry packs behind the saddle so cannot comment.

The WOW saddle link you gave me is one of the ones I have seen before, and it was the landing (which is an essential part of jumping), which I was referring to in my last post - sorry if I did not make it clear.

I do indeed ask about the whole horse, and certainly not just saddle fit. Thank you for your pointing me in the right direction though.

 

[qhlady]

Oh good God.

Do you really have nothing better to do? because I really do, but your eloquent baiting is just to much fun to ignore...

I do beg your pardon dear lady, I lumped the UK into Europe as is the habit nowadays. If it helps I will list the various other European countries I have experience of to allow you the perusal of my credentials. I'll pass on to you my degrees, resume, statistics - whatever it is you require to remove the thorn from your backside and get over whatever hump it is you are stuck on.

You appear to be an interesting person, with an incredible arrogance that seems to rival even mine... astonishing.

I really do think though that this should maybe move on to it's own thread as while incredibly entertaining, it's nothing to do with a buddy seat.

ta ra deary

 

[qhlady]

Chilli, I am finding the horse porn hilarious... are we allowed to show that much equine excitement with out some sort of censorship or rating?

 

[Chilli]

have a few queries though. The "true experts" you speak of - could I have names so that I may learn from them their experience too?

Oh I was just quoting you but I would consider researchers/lecturers in bio mechanics with expertise in the exo-muscular system of horses to be as good as experts we are going to get, I know one guy doing some research but until it’s finished he won’t talk publicly about it.

Mares support for short bursts (stallions don't - is there any difference in load carrying between girls and boys?). We usually ride for long bursts.

Mares do indeed and stallions don’t but stallions have shorter stronger backs in general. Gate and duration are indeed factors, I’ve never said anything other than the area of the back discussed can support some weight for short duration without causing the unavoidable issues/damage that some have suggested.

Also, where the stallion mostly rests is behind the lumbo-sacral area and is in fact quite a strong 'pillar', and that is the same in all the photos you put up. The horse is not moving like it does while being ridden. Lastly, there is no one riding the horse at the same time as the stallion - so very different.

Indeed but as I said, “when they scramble up” they put pressure on the region in question before they come to rest, if the animal is static or not it proves the area in question can bear great pressure in small burst without the unavoidable damage/injurys suggested, the horse in motion is where the real issue/action lies IMO but you can see horses moving about as they struggle for position or don’t get the mounting right and they are in motion with another horse on their backs so to speak which weigh a lot more than a rider and a bag or small child.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-cRCMdyu6bqo/a_popular_horses_mating_video/

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-4VgGgyvGoUg/large_draft_cart_horses_mating_long_version/

I have got a picture somewhere of a guy in South America riding a stallion while it services a mare.

The WOW saddle link you gave me is one of the ones I have seen before, and it was the landing (which is an essential part of jumping), which I was referring to in my last post - sorry if I did not make it clear.

I know I was joking I should have put a wink at the end.

Chilli, I am finding the horse porn hilarious...

It's natural history......or art.....or whatever doen't get me locked up as a pornographer

 

[trotter26]

Mares support for short bursts (stallions don't - is there any difference in load carrying between girls and boys?). We usually ride for long bursts. Also, where the stallion mostly rests is behind the lumbo-sacral area and is in fact quite a strong 'pillar', and that is the same in all the photos you put up. The horse is not moving like it does while being ridden. Lastly, there is no one riding the horse at the same time as the stallion - so very different.

And anyone having been involved in covering will have seen the mare struggle to support the weight of the stallion during covering, which lasts at most for a few minutes

 

[levi1739]

the back discussed can support some weight for short duration without causing the unavoidable issues/damage that some have suggested.

"Some weight" might be an understatement. The front end of a mounted stallion certainly weighs more than a child riding double.

I have got a picture somewhere of a guy in South America riding a stallion while it services a mare.

Jockey's tell me that it's the lucky fella riding the mare that's really in trouble. This stuff does happen often around the track though.


Keep on, keepin on

Jack