Are different breeds more receptive to certain NH methods?

HashRouge

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Feb 18, 2008
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Cheshire..but London right now
I was just wondering whether there is any evidence that different breed respond better to certain NH methods, or whether there are some breeds that just don't respond that well to NH in general and take longer to adapt to it.
 
My welshie loves it, fun for him, but my fell who was 19 wouldnt even lunge, she just planted and said Ive done all that years ago. When we did get her going, welshie was running round the outside of her at liberty doing everything perfectly as if he was trying to show her. I think it may have been age, or personality, or the fell is known to be stubborn. She did have good manners and always moved for you if there was a reason, just not on the end of the 12 foot without a reason.
 
Icelandics are very quick to pick up on body language, use the wrong type and you will knwo instantly.
 
Dare i say pnh without causing thread to go pear shape!
But there is the idea of the 4 horsenatilities learning and responding in different ways. I have a left brain extrovert and the character is surprisingly spot on.
He's new forest. Now if read anything on these lovely ponies it says makes good childrens ponies and are willing. Didnt mean my chap then. He is willing if something in it for him. Bit of give and take.
Not sure if breed makes difference per se but personality does.
 
I guess it depends what you mean by nh. If you take the horse as the starting point, then how he sees things is how he sees things. I guess it might be more difficult to 'read' certain breeds of horse, but if you've correctly understood the horse's perception and what you are doing is informed by that perception, then surely it must be an effective approach for any horse of any breed.
 
Just my unvarnished opinion but I think PNH is better suited to more sensitive horses who don't need such a big ugly phase 4.

By definition I don't think there is a breed of horse unsuited to NH in the widest sense of the term. If it isn't working then the handler is doing it wrong or using the wrong approach for that horse and that particular situation.
 
Just my unvarnished opinion but I think PNH is better suited to more sensitive horses who don't need such a big ugly phase 4.

By definition I don't think there is a breed of horse unsuited to NH in the widest sense of the term. If it isn't working then the handler is doing it wrong or using the wrong approach for that horse and that particular situation.

is it better suited to your perception of phase four being ugly? to the horse it would just be a clearer signal. Ugly phase 4 would only be ugly to the horse if the person bringing about phase 4 were doing so out of frustration or anger. Many people often misunderstand how light phase one can/should be and how much pressure is required to really give phase 4. The reason for the reluctance to use phase 4 and misconception of how the horse sees it is born of human emotion.

The horse does not see it as ugly if done in the right way with the right intention with the right body language. It just hears the question louder and more clearly.

Horses bring way more pressure upon each other than a person could ever do with phase 4 human scale. You would have to use a godam shovel to create nearly as much pressure as my lad sometimes puts on the rest of the herd if they get out of line.

A horse is a horse, some have long flight lines, some have short, some are dominant, some are submissive. Some are extremely confident, some have less confidence than a field mouse and are even scared of their own shadow! Literally!

Some breeds are more inclined to be prevelant with one of these features more than another, eg a thorobred has a longer flight line than a cob, etc etc. But this does not nec mean NH works better for one horse breed than another. It the effectivness of the clinician which dictates how well the horse responds. A good clinician will be able to change and tweak his knowledge to suit any temperament or breed or discipline.

That why I believe that NH is a concept not a technique.
 
is it better suited to your perception of phase four being ugly?

No, phase 4 for a stolid unreactive horse can be very rough from the horse's point of view as well as the humans, regardless of the emotion or lack of it in the handler. If you can't train your horse without walloping it with a stick or a bull clip in the face then there's something wrong IMHO :)
 
"a stolid unreactive horse"....Hmm you're right there because this is the sort like Malaga who needs a whisper and time to think.:) a phase four for this type of horse is completely differant from the phase four you are talking of.
 
No, phase 4 for a stolid unreactive horse can be very rough from the horse's point of view as well as the humans

Horses have to deal with pressure all the time and it doesn't have anything to do with humans and their phase 4. :cool: Even the lazy/unreactive ones understand the "need to move".

MVC-857S.jpg



Now humans do have problems understanding the need to apply pressure, as well as how much. Most of the good NH type trainers have a chapter or two explaining it. Usually very early in their teachings they will say something like this, "as much as necessary".

If you can't train your horse without walloping it with a stick or a bull clip in the face then there's something wrong IMHO


I've heard this "practice" refered to often on this board. Yann, do you know people that do this often? It's certainly nothing that I've ever experienced around the horsemen I know.

Now I do "wallop" mine pretty hard sometimes. Usually in the summertime when those big ole black flies are on their back. Othertimes I slap em right above the "tail head" with an open hand. I can't seem to smack them hard enough since they keep backing into it and asking for more. But, "walloped" with a stick and bull clip, now that sounds like it may be abusive. :rolleyes:


Keep on, keepin on

Jack
 
Ditto Flickermum and JJ (I've got one too!) :) And mine certainly lets me know if I'm 'shouting'!!!

mine too!!:) You see, with Flick, ya rarely need the shout, and if you do and you apply it in the right way, it works immediately. But say it in the way I would say it to Warren and he will soon remind me who knows what about horses.:eek:;)
 
The thing is, that with phase 4, you should'nt need it forever. You may need every now and again to remind them that you know all about phase 4 and that you can apply it effectively, but the whole point about using phases effectively is that you come back down the scale from phase 4 to 3 to 2 to 1. That the whole point of timing and feel in the first place IMO. You need good timing and feel to know when to be able to go up or down the scale effectively.
 
Yes, but you still need it if that's the way you choose to work with that type of horse, be it at the beginning of the training process or as an occasional reminder.
 
I can't remeber who said this but it stays with me always:

If you don't get the answer you where looking for, then you either asked the wrong question or the question wrong.

Surely if NH is about the practise of horsemanship from the horses point of view then how could it not be adjusted to suit any breed no matter how sensitive or reactive they are?

My take on the NH approach is that it is training a horse from a horses point of view, to acheive what you would like to do with him/her.

Good horsemanship of any kind is that itself = Good horse-human-relationship
 
If you need four phases, or any more than one, your timing isn't what it should be, and you don't have feel at all.


Don't think you understand four phases AO!!:confused::confused:

Why would someone have no feel at all just because they use phases of pressure?

I can tell you now, that I use phases/degrees of pressure, and I have excellent feel, and timing. Not saying its perfect all of the time, but I know when it's good, and I recognise when it is not what it could be.
 
If you need four phases, or any more than one, your timing isn't what it should be, and you don't have feel at all

I'm missing something here Aengus?

How do folks interpret the "phase of pressure" the horse I pictured is using? Is it "abusive" or to "soft"? I do know that horses all have impecable timing and feel, and both horses shown in my pic. are showing it.

I use many different concepts to help my communication with horses. I often will use another animal to help me with horses. A horse with "stuck feet" is a good example. The grey seems to be moving pretty well now and I didn't apply any pressure at all. And, both horses recognize the "change" in the way they "feel".



Keep on, keepin on

Jack
 
I was just wondering whether there is any evidence that different breed respond better to certain NH methods, or whether there are some breeds that just don't respond that well to NH in general and take longer to adapt to it.

NH is like child centred education, the starting point is the horse and the idea is to choose from a wide range of NH techniques appropriate to that particular horse at that particular moment. Therefore IMHO it is impossible for there to be the 'wrong type of horse' and it is the humans that sometimes struggle to do the adapting as they try to learn enough of the skills they need to match up to their horse's needs :)
 
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