The stupid hunt ....

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Its a film about fox hunting made aboround the same time as tarka the otter, where a huntsman adopts a fox cub and rears it with the hounds. As an adult it gives the pack a good run around and the MFH ends up trying to kill it. Its a bit of a tear jerker:)
 
I think that this thread has past its sell by date. It seems to be the same people trying to change others views with petty little arguments.

Might as well leave it people as your really not going to agree about it so why bother??

Nikki xxxx
 
what happens in tarka the otter, i can only find one vid on youtube which doesnt include much?
 
its begins with you seeing a baby otter growing up around his mum and habitat, and he travels and mates, and his life ends by being hunted by men with hounds, the hounds and men were shown quite a bit in the story, it is horrible!
 
The plot begins with Tarka as a cub growing up in a den with his mother and siblings. As a cub, he learns how to clean himself, swim, and catch fish. When his home is attacked by hunters, he and his wild family must abandon it to flee from danger. Joining up with some other otters, the family continue to travel. At some point he loses his family and his mother forgets she even had a cub named Tarka. From now on he must fend for himself. He continues to be persecuted, and so he is constantly on the run from the hunters. In the end, as he is once again being chased by the pack of hounds, his life ends in a heroic deathmatch with the fearsome dog Deadlock, who dies with him.
 
I'm not sentimental about vermin, it's just a fact of life that they need to be controlled in order to try and maintain some balance in the wild and prevent excessive damage to crops and property.

By the admission of various posters on this thread hunting isn't even about that, it's about entertainment at the expense of an animal's destruction, which is why so many people find it distasteful in principle. I would put it in the same bracket as dogfighting, bullfighting and bear baiting.
 
By the admission of various posters on this thread hunting isn't even about that, it's about entertainment at the expense of an animal's destruction, which is why so many people find it distasteful in principle. I would put it in the same bracket as dogfighting, bullfighting and bear baiting.

I agree.

And I also don't think this thread has "past its sell by date" at all, in fact I find it very interesting. I hate seeing threads closed when they are discussions like this.
 
I'm not sentimental about vermin, it's just a fact of life that they need to be controlled in order to try and maintain some balance in the wild and prevent excessive damage to crops and property.
agree:D

By the admission of various posters on this thread hunting isn't even about that, it's about entertainment at the expense of an animal's destruction, which is why so many people find it distasteful in principle. I would put it in the same bracket as dogfighting, bullfighting and bear baiting.

disagree, these last three always end in death or injury, with hunting the chances of actually atching a fox a very slim, think our local hunt caught about 30 foxes last season (thats hunting three days a week october - march).
Hardly an efficient method of pest control, hence why I don't like all the pro hunting arguments that foxes need to be controlled and hunting is the best way to do it. Actually going out lamping every night and shooting them is far more likely to control the population but on the other hand there would be no more foxes left to hunt:p. Hence also why I am not anti hunting, as I believe hunting actually maintains a healthy fox population!
 
Can I just make it clear that I'm not trying to say all foxes should be killed by hounds, I sit on the fence with regards to hunting, but I'm just trying to say tha actually with all the hormones pumping it is not such a horrific end for the fox as others are trying to make out.
There is pain and suffering everywhere in the wild - it's a fact of life. In that regard, domestic animals tend to be rather better off than their wild cousins. Because we act as stewards or keepers of livestock, pets and animals used for service, sport or leisure, we owe them a duty of care which involves trying to minimize any suffering. At least, that is how the moral argument goes. (In my opinion, we are failing spectacularly in the case of factory farmed animals.)

Our position vis-à-vis wildlife is different in that we cannot hope to prevent all the suffering that goes on. We can certainly help in certain cases: putting the mixy rabbit out of its misery by shooting it, or treating and rehabiliting an injured bat, for example. We can also promote healthy wildlife e.g. by providing bird feeders.

Every fox is going to die eventually, somehow. Many, perhaps most, of those deaths will involve suffering to some degree, whether humans are directly involved or not. The question is whether hunting reduces or increases the sum total of their suffering. Does the horrific-looking death actually save the fox from an even worse fate? Does it save others? I think an argument can be made (at least in the former case) that sometimes it does. But does it benefit every fox to be killed by hunters? I don't think so.

My personal feeling is that hunting foxes is, in many cases, no more cruel to the fox than leaving it to live - and die - by itself. So I am not strongly opposed to hunting on those grounds. I would find it horrific and cruel if those who hunt derive pleasure from the killing itself. But I think that most do not - at least I hope not! On the other hand, I am sure hunters do take pleasure in other aspects, some of which I can only guess at because I have never experienced them myself, but which may be easier to justify.

The arguments that are put forward in support of the activity of fox hunting are not always 100% convincing - even though the views may be honestly held. I dislike the exaggerations, e.g. regarding the role of hunting in pest control. Hunting makes very little difference to the numbers overall. Its only real benefit results from removal of "rogue" foxes that habitually attack livestock - a small fraction of the total.

So I guess you could say I sit on the fence too.
 
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Francis Burton thank you for writing that it sums up almost exactly my views on hunting! Except that with regards to the removal or 'rogue' foxes this is more accurately achieved at night with a dead chicken as bait and well aimed bullet:D
 
with hunting the chances of actually atching a fox a very slim,

If foxes are actually peripheral to the experience and the day out is the thing, then why so much fuss about the ban?

Hence also why I am not anti hunting, as I believe hunting actually maintains a healthy fox population!

I've heard this argument put forward before too, but this flies directly in the face of all the claims about pest control. I think both are just excuses personally, foxes are either vermin and a problem that needs addressing, or they aren't. You can't have it both ways;)
 
I'm not sentimental about vermin, it's just a fact of life that they need to be controlled in order to try and maintain some balance in the wild and prevent excessive damage to crops and property.
No argument there.

By the admission of various posters on this thread hunting isn't even about that, it's about entertainment at the expense of an animal's destruction, which is why so many people find it distasteful in principle. I would put it in the same bracket as dogfighting, bullfighting and bear baiting.
I usually find myself in agreement with you, Yann, but here I think we may diverge. If hunting was simply about humans being entertained by the destruction of an animal, I too would consider it no better than the other activities you list - which I agree are utterly deplorable. However, I'm a) sure that hunting is not simply about this, and b) not at all sure that it is the killing itself that is entertaining (even though an animal is indeed killed). Taking pleasure in death is distasteful to me too, but that may not where the pleasure in hunting foxes lies. Anyone hunters care to comment?

(I do find the popular hunting of wildlife in America, where trophy value is considered more important than food value, and there is no ecological benefit, to be quite repulsive.)
 
I've heard this argument put forward before too, but this flies directly in the face of all the claims about pest control. I think both are just excuses personally, foxes are either vermin and a problem that needs addressing, or they aren't. You can't have it both ways;)

Thats my point. If you bothered to read my previous posts you'd relised that whilst I said I'm not anti hunting I am not Pro hunting either!!;) Pro's use the vermin excuse too much, they'd get more respect from me if they just admited they enjoyed the sport of riding accross country and catching a diseased fox was a bonus.
 
I'm a) sure that hunting is not simply about this, and b) not at all sure that it is the killing itself that is entertaining (even though an animal is indeed killed).

I'm sure it isn't either, there's plenty else to the experience which makes it special. I've never had anything to do with fox hounds, but I have been to several bloodhound meets dismounted (occasionally as quarry) and thought it was wonderful. I have finally had the opportunity to take one of my horses hound exercising this weekend, again with bloodhounds, and I'm really looking forward to it :)
However with fox hunting I don't think you can get away from the fact that part of the appeal will be the thrill of the chase and the uncertainty of whether there will be a kill or not. I know it appeals to our basic instincts, and that's why there are such strong feelings about it, but I can't condone it personally.
 
No argument there.


I usually find myself in agreement with you, Yann, but here I think we may diverge. If hunting was simply about humans being entertained by the destruction of an animal, I too would consider it no better than the other activities you list - which I agree are utterly deplorable. However, I'm a) sure that hunting is not simply about this, and b) not at all sure that it is the killing itself that is entertaining (even though an animal is indeed killed). Taking pleasure in death is distasteful to me too, but that may not where the pleasure in hunting foxes lies. Anyone hunters care to comment?

(I do find the popular hunting of wildlife in America, where trophy value is considered more important than food value, and there is no ecological benefit, to be quite repulsive.)

In traditional public houses in britain they have stuffed foxes and pheasants on display like trophies, so i believe Hunters here proberly have the same outlook.
 
Have you ever wathed the belstone fox?
I would rather be chased for miles with the possibility of escape than poisened like a rat and left to die a horribly slow and agonising death. Why aren't anti hunters all sticking up for the poor defensless rat is it because its not cute and cuddly like a fox?
I agree with you on this. We've got humane rat cages around our land to catch the critters...any we catch are shot.

I'm totally against any type of poisoning.
 
I agree with you on this. We've got humane rat cages around our land to catch the critters...any we catch are shot.

I'm totally against any type of poisoning.

yet sadly I have heard of a few smallholders who after loosing a few chickens have baited the carcasses with rat poison. Absoltely indefensible IMO what if a straying dog were to come accrosss it? The excuses were that if it was deemed ok for the rats then why not the foxes:( Its true though, why is it ok for one lot of vermin to suffer slow agonising deaths but an outcry over another far more cuddly vermin to be dispatched with a dog? I'd rather my JRT caught a few rats than put bait down!
 
I don't know about evidence, but I belive there are no published journals specifically about pain in foxes being 'ripped apart'.

Therefore I don't think you should you condem something as "rubbish" unless you have evidence to prove it.;)

For instance, when a child is chased and bitten by a dog, would they scream and cry due to the adrenaline rush or because they are petrified and in pain?:confused:
 
I imagine that a fox probably does feel some pain when it is caught, however to me this would be preferable to being shot in the leg and dieing of septecimia or being caught in a snare for 24 hours (the legal requirement to check a snare is 24 hours). I really do think that although these things are not nice they are a fact of life, things do die and often not in an awfully nice way.

ETA- Dying! See I can spell!
 
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