What to do with a rig?
- Thread starter Cupcake
- Start date
Just because he still has one set of testosterone doesn't mean he's automatically crazy and violent. Plenty of stallions are beautifully behaved, lovely safe horses who just happen to be entire. If he is aggressive, yes the testosterone won't be helping, but there is another issue there completely. You can get aggressive geldings and mares, I knew of one who tried to kill every rider put on it - and that was a mare!
What you have is a horse with a behaviour problem. Treat him as such. Try different things - horses with serious issues like this don't always respond to conventional methods. They always need time, but things like NH often are the only way in. I'm a fan of anything that works, and you don't need to follow the whole programme slavishly, so try some of the alternative stuff - see him as a project.
No happy horse will be aggressive for the sake of it - people are the same. If he is aggressive all the time, he's miserable and insecure. It is the way he's learned to cope with the world. Being boss is very lonely, but keeps you safe. You need to change his perception of the world, show him that with a human as boss, he can relax and trust someone else to take care of the worrying details of life. NH programmes just give you a method to follow to try to achieve that, rather than you having to work out how to do it on your own. I have heard of Parelli being good for aggressive horses - the ground work part. Kelly Marks etc is good too. Pick a method you like and have a go.
What you have is a horse with a behaviour problem. Treat him as such. Try different things - horses with serious issues like this don't always respond to conventional methods. They always need time, but things like NH often are the only way in. I'm a fan of anything that works, and you don't need to follow the whole programme slavishly, so try some of the alternative stuff - see him as a project.
No happy horse will be aggressive for the sake of it - people are the same. If he is aggressive all the time, he's miserable and insecure. It is the way he's learned to cope with the world. Being boss is very lonely, but keeps you safe. You need to change his perception of the world, show him that with a human as boss, he can relax and trust someone else to take care of the worrying details of life. NH programmes just give you a method to follow to try to achieve that, rather than you having to work out how to do it on your own. I have heard of Parelli being good for aggressive horses - the ground work part. Kelly Marks etc is good too. Pick a method you like and have a go.
Here is two good articles on cryptorchidism.
http://www.acvs.org/AnimalOwners/He...edTesticlesinHorses/index.cfm?dspPrintReady=Y
I would also suggest you read this article also.
http://ultimatehorsesite.com/info/cryptorchid.html
http://www.acvs.org/AnimalOwners/He...edTesticlesinHorses/index.cfm?dspPrintReady=Y
I would also suggest you read this article also.
http://ultimatehorsesite.com/info/cryptorchid.html
Oh Cupcake I do feel for you ((((hugs)))) things seemed to be going so well for you.
Don`t be put off by it - your horse wont be the first rig and he wont be the last. I agree with Teazle that the majority of the behaviour issues he has is a separate thing. Stallions arent all agressive and rude, if they were, they wouldnt be put with other horses too.
We have two horses at our yard in two different fields, and everyone is of the opinion that they too are rigs. Neither of them are rude or aggressive to people, but they do appear to be in charge. One imparticular has been known to mount the mares, and the other hates mares and chases them away from the other geldings.
Dont let this put you off, I am sure you can work at it - I guess its just come as a shock to you and can appear extremely daunting. Look at it at a different angle, and think of it as a challenage - something new for you to get your teeth in to.
I would do as much research on this as possible to put your mind at rest, but like I say he isnt the first, and wont be the last......you can work it out sweet! xx
Don`t be put off by it - your horse wont be the first rig and he wont be the last. I agree with Teazle that the majority of the behaviour issues he has is a separate thing. Stallions arent all agressive and rude, if they were, they wouldnt be put with other horses too.
We have two horses at our yard in two different fields, and everyone is of the opinion that they too are rigs. Neither of them are rude or aggressive to people, but they do appear to be in charge. One imparticular has been known to mount the mares, and the other hates mares and chases them away from the other geldings.
Dont let this put you off, I am sure you can work at it - I guess its just come as a shock to you and can appear extremely daunting. Look at it at a different angle, and think of it as a challenage - something new for you to get your teeth in to.
I would do as much research on this as possible to put your mind at rest, but like I say he isnt the first, and wont be the last......you can work it out sweet! xx
I didn't suddenly go oh dear he's a rig better bring out the pepper spray incase he decides to scratch my eyes out. I knew from the moment we took him off the float that he wasn't a happy little chap.
I feel terrible leaving him in a paddock all by himself. I can't even have my mares in sight as Skye has gone into season and goes stupid when she's near him.
He's not miserable all the time, only when he's had enough of being around me or the mares. Then he takes off with a lot of kicking in the face. I've tried to turn this around by walking up to him and pushing him away, then walking away, so it was my idea to walk off. He thinks I'm playing and has started pushing me around, and nipping my hands. He backs off when I tell him off but then forgets about it and does it again.
I'll go down to the paddock tomorrow and think about what I'm going to do. I want him to be happy, not miserable because I don't feel like letting him go.
This is the chance you take when rescuing them from the knackery.
Obviously the vet has done a blood test is that right? What was the result?
Did the vet do an internal check to see if he has any a retained testicle?
Aggressive behaviour is a typical behaviour form for a rig - poor boy. You can have an operation on him to remove the retained tesitcles. This costs around the $1000 mark and upwards depending on the vet.
My daughters TB had two retained testicles which I have had removed and then tested positive to testosterone
and he needs another test before we decide on where to go from here - we are lucky that he is a very friendly aimable horse and is not aggressive.
You have no option but to separate this horse! You could put yourself in danger should he decided to 'protect' his mares from you and also he could hurt the mares. It is honestly no time to be worrying about poor horse being on his own! Being on his own will also help with his handling issues as he won't be distracted by his mares.
Also feed him Moody Mare - yes you can feed it to male horses as it is a formula to help with hormones and that is what is raging around your boy, it will help settle the hormones.
Obviously the vet has done a blood test is that right? What was the result?
Did the vet do an internal check to see if he has any a retained testicle?
Aggressive behaviour is a typical behaviour form for a rig - poor boy. You can have an operation on him to remove the retained tesitcles. This costs around the $1000 mark and upwards depending on the vet.
My daughters TB had two retained testicles which I have had removed and then tested positive to testosterone
and he needs another test before we decide on where to go from here - we are lucky that he is a very friendly aimable horse and is not aggressive.You have no option but to separate this horse! You could put yourself in danger should he decided to 'protect' his mares from you and also he could hurt the mares. It is honestly no time to be worrying about poor horse being on his own! Being on his own will also help with his handling issues as he won't be distracted by his mares.
Also feed him Moody Mare - yes you can feed it to male horses as it is a formula to help with hormones and that is what is raging around your boy, it will help settle the hormones.
Yes he did the blood tests and he has higher than normal test testosteone (sp?). He said without actually surgically opening him up, he can't tell if there is a retained testicle. He did have a feel around (with much disgust to cobweb. and could not find one.
He said that most like one has been retained and the other taken off when he was gelded.
Was very worried until he explained that Cobweb was infertile even though he still may have a teste.
I shall ring around and find out prices for getting it/them removed. That price is very out of my reach at the moment, but if it has to be done...
Would that stop his aggressive behaviour?
Thankyou for your help, I'll put him on that straight away. Anything to make him more approachable I'll try.
He said that most like one has been retained and the other taken off when he was gelded.
Was very worried until he explained that Cobweb was infertile even though he still may have a teste.
I shall ring around and find out prices for getting it/them removed. That price is very out of my reach at the moment, but if it has to be done...
Would that stop his aggressive behaviour?
Thankyou for your help, I'll put him on that straight away. Anything to make him more approachable I'll try.
Yes it is very unlikely that he is fertile. Mushu had a testosteron level of 13.1which is just a little bit high, a normal gelding will have a testosterone level of 12.1. It is usually testosterone that makes a rig agressive - it is the male hormone which stallions need to help them be herd protector and porcreator, if Cobweb (lovely name btw
) has a high level of testosterone then it is this that is making him agressive, I also suspect frustration too imagine living all your life teasing the ladies and then not being able to follow on from the teasing - during the teasing processor he himself would have been aroused, actually quite cruel really. Anyway take away the high testosterone levels the horse will start to calm down but only over about six months.The other option to consider is that he may have a tumour which can also increase levels of testosterone.
What did the professional trainer say to you about Cobweb.
He said that he needs to settle into his new homes before we try anything else. He was very distracted and spent the whole time neighing and trying to get back to the mares. After 2 hours he was much calmer and starting to listen, shame the breaker is booked for another 2 weeks.
I'd prefer not to handle him myself as I'm very intimidated by him and it shows. But the breaker left some exercises to do in the round yard which means I don't have to get close to him but still remain 'top horse'.
At the time that the trainer came, he did not know that he was a rig. I'm calling him tomorrow and going to ask if I should change anything that I'm doing or leave it until he can come back.
I'd prefer not to handle him myself as I'm very intimidated by him and it shows. But the breaker left some exercises to do in the round yard which means I don't have to get close to him but still remain 'top horse'.
At the time that the trainer came, he did not know that he was a rig. I'm calling him tomorrow and going to ask if I should change anything that I'm doing or leave it until he can come back.
It is a good idea to contact the trainer again and discuss the excersises with him
Always stay safe and wear saftey gear when working with him
It is a good idea to let him settle, he should get better on the Moody Mare at focussing on his handler.
Always stay safe and wear saftey gear when working with himIt is a good idea to let him settle, he should get better on the Moody Mare at focussing on his handler.
We had one operated on and the offending article removed very successfully.
He's los the gob on him now and is a dear boy. The way we looked at it we only had the two options, have a go and see if we could find it or PTS. A rig in the wrong place can be a real problem.
He's los the gob on him now and is a dear boy. The way we looked at it we only had the two options, have a go and see if we could find it or PTS. A rig in the wrong place can be a real problem.
if a blodo test has come back with a reasult suggesting that something has been left behind, then you owe it to the horse to see things through and go ahead nd see what is going on and having things removed. This may help his behaviour however there is no guarentee.
My gelding acted very riggy when i got him, he was mounting mares, he was getting aroused, was fighting with the geldings. calling to and chatting up the mares, and things where progressing to other areas liek his ridden work. I got the vet to do a blood test , however in my case my boys bloods came back normal, in fact even low for a gelding, so nothing retained.
In my geldings case he was a stallion till the age of 6-7 and ran with mares. So in his case it is a learned behaviour, somethign i can not change. In many ways had he had somethign left behind it woudl of at least been a chance to try and change his behaviour.
However it is now down to carefull management, he will happily go out with geldings as long as there are no mares near by. I have provided him with a consistant companion, one he is stabled near and is turned out with. This has helped him a lot.
I have to be firm with him, however i dont use it as an excuse. Being a stallion is natural for a horse remember , it isnt an illness. There is no reason for any horse tobe turned out alone, If i was t turn my gleding out alone he woudl thret so much, he woudl probably injure himself tryign toget to company.
You have to look at your horses situation, look for triggers, anbd deal with things gradually. however having what ever is left behind, removed coudl well help you.
I knwo it isnt cheap , however i was prepared to do this for my gelding.
My gelding acted very riggy when i got him, he was mounting mares, he was getting aroused, was fighting with the geldings. calling to and chatting up the mares, and things where progressing to other areas liek his ridden work. I got the vet to do a blood test , however in my case my boys bloods came back normal, in fact even low for a gelding, so nothing retained.
In my geldings case he was a stallion till the age of 6-7 and ran with mares. So in his case it is a learned behaviour, somethign i can not change. In many ways had he had somethign left behind it woudl of at least been a chance to try and change his behaviour.
However it is now down to carefull management, he will happily go out with geldings as long as there are no mares near by. I have provided him with a consistant companion, one he is stabled near and is turned out with. This has helped him a lot.
I have to be firm with him, however i dont use it as an excuse. Being a stallion is natural for a horse remember , it isnt an illness. There is no reason for any horse tobe turned out alone, If i was t turn my gleding out alone he woudl thret so much, he woudl probably injure himself tryign toget to company.
You have to look at your horses situation, look for triggers, anbd deal with things gradually. however having what ever is left behind, removed coudl well help you.
I knwo it isnt cheap , however i was prepared to do this for my gelding.
Way back in the early 70s I bought a little Exmoor pony, Rufus. He looked fantastic, masculine, smart and very very sharp. The people I bought him from got him from a riding school where he was kept with geldings (no mares). He was super to ride out alone and we had many a long ride together.
However, Spring came and he started to get rather fond of the mares and they of him. He even started mounting them - but, thankfully, didn't get any of them in foal.
He was ok alone but not when mares were around. His whole persona changed and he 'became a stallion'. (I'm sure I've posted about this before a couple of years ago).I took him out for a ride and we were going along the road. He heard a horse neigh (probably a mare) and he threw me on the road and ran off 'in search of this mare'.
I sold him a few months after that to a girl who whose family were very knowledgable about horses/ponies/rigs and he was kept with just one other gelding. She kept him for the rest of his life!
It is possible for the vet to operate if he can find the 'offending testicle' but very often they have not descended into the scrotum and are floating around somewhere else in the body!!!!
As for Falcon - he'd rather have a nice cup of tea!!!!
However, Spring came and he started to get rather fond of the mares and they of him. He even started mounting them - but, thankfully, didn't get any of them in foal.
He was ok alone but not when mares were around. His whole persona changed and he 'became a stallion'. (I'm sure I've posted about this before a couple of years ago).I took him out for a ride and we were going along the road. He heard a horse neigh (probably a mare) and he threw me on the road and ran off 'in search of this mare'.
I sold him a few months after that to a girl who whose family were very knowledgable about horses/ponies/rigs and he was kept with just one other gelding. She kept him for the rest of his life!
It is possible for the vet to operate if he can find the 'offending testicle' but very often they have not descended into the scrotum and are floating around somewhere else in the body!!!!
As for Falcon - he'd rather have a nice cup of tea!!!!
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Yes two vets is a good idea - I had two vets working on Mushu, even then it took them a while to get the offending bits.
lol i know this is a bit off topic (sorry post starter) but this morning my recently gelded pony claret jumped 3ft out of his electric fenced field (he's 11hh) when i got there he was 'chatting' to mu mare. As she wasn't in season i let her out to meet him as i thought it would make it easier to catch him as i could herd them in one field and as it has been over 2 months since gelding i was told he shouldn't be fertile. well Claret had other ideas and tried to mount Lacey the mare, she is a tad too tall for him to reach so wasn't too worried until she went doen on her front knees for him 
and came into season 
I've seperated them now but really hope Claret is infertile.
My main worry is as he has been gelded already .........how long will the stallion behaviour last or will he always be a bit riggy? (He's 9yrs old).
He is in a paddock on his own at the moment but although i don't like keeping ponies on their own i think it is the only choice i have for him at the moment.
All fun and games!?
As for cobweb i would definitely try and get the retained object removed if possible.
and came into season I've seperated them now but really hope Claret is infertile.My main worry is as he has been gelded already .........how long will the stallion behaviour last or will he always be a bit riggy? (He's 9yrs old).
He is in a paddock on his own at the moment but although i don't like keeping ponies on their own i think it is the only choice i have for him at the moment.
All fun and games!?
As for cobweb i would definitely try and get the retained object removed if possible.
Nelson was entire when we had him, only one of his pieces had dropped, he was hiding the other 
From what I can gather previous owners couldn't be bothered to sort him out so silly me took it upon myself to sort him out
He was also very sharp and 'man-like' but is now a sweety (almost) He went for the op and it was the cleanest easiest op the vets had performed and his recovery was very speedy and complication free. Vet came out a week later and said most of the time they dont look this good until at least 3/4 weeks after
So... a positive story on the operation side of things (cost £700 from start to finish inc all meds, after care and vet visits)
From what I can gather previous owners couldn't be bothered to sort him out so silly me took it upon myself to sort him out He was also very sharp and 'man-like' but is now a sweety (almost
) He went for the op and it was the cleanest easiest op the vets had performed and his recovery was very speedy and complication free. Vet came out a week later and said most of the time they dont look this good until at least 3/4 weeks after So... a positive story on the operation side of things (cost £700 from start to finish inc all meds, after care and vet visits)
I know how you feel, for a year i had a little gray section A gelding and he mounted everything, acted worse than a stallion and was a nightmare. No way i could let a child ride him in case another horse or pony came into contact.
I decided to have him checked out although previous owner said he had already been tested. Well results came back and he had a testie still inside and hadnt been cut incorrectly in the first place. He had the operation to have it removed (it also had a growth on it which came back not cancerous) the testie was producting more testosteone than a normal stallion with two! this is why he was so bad, althought ive been told that rigs are often worse than stallions. He has since been sold to a RS and has little children ride him and he is brilliant complete different pony.
If he has no testies left inside then you can buy a supplement from global herbs which may help to calm him down. Its a frustrating i know.
I also have a horse which is extremely head shy and has had a troubled past, and its taken a year to get a bridle on him but not like the normal way. He has no brow band and has a poll cushion from stubben to hold it all together. He has to have it put on like a head collar and the bit goes on last, it seems silly and strange to other people but it suits him, the point im making is given time you will find ways to over come his problems dont get me wrong ive been this close to giving up on him, but now 3 years on we have a great bond!
Fingers crossed i hope you find a way x
I decided to have him checked out although previous owner said he had already been tested. Well results came back and he had a testie still inside and hadnt been cut incorrectly in the first place. He had the operation to have it removed (it also had a growth on it which came back not cancerous) the testie was producting more testosteone than a normal stallion with two! this is why he was so bad, althought ive been told that rigs are often worse than stallions. He has since been sold to a RS and has little children ride him and he is brilliant complete different pony.
If he has no testies left inside then you can buy a supplement from global herbs which may help to calm him down. Its a frustrating i know.
I also have a horse which is extremely head shy and has had a troubled past, and its taken a year to get a bridle on him but not like the normal way. He has no brow band and has a poll cushion from stubben to hold it all together. He has to have it put on like a head collar and the bit goes on last, it seems silly and strange to other people but it suits him, the point im making is given time you will find ways to over come his problems dont get me wrong ive been this close to giving up on him, but now 3 years on we have a great bond!
Fingers crossed i hope you find a way x
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