Please pray for Millie
- Thread starter diplomaticandtactful
- Start date
Very much hope not
completely bad, they have now put her into a very low potassium situation so that her tests for the next couple of months will be screwed till she gets on track again.
I am even more disappointed after the conversation with my vet....This is my email to a poodle network with extensive experience in addisons, backed by a 2021 study of addisons dogs which proves that the low dose protocol they follow in USA is safe and less harmful and the high dose protocol used here
The vet rang and we had a very unsatisfactory conversation.
According to the vet, I was the one who wanted Millie to be injected as I wanted to keep her to a 30 day testing regime. I stress the word TESTING regime, as it did not mean treatment regime. At the point where the dog was injected, I didn’t even know the results at that point, so how could I know that she was not requiring the injection? Why would a vet inject a dog if it was clinically not requiring treatment just to please the owner? I did say that I preferred to keep her to a regular shorter testing regime rather than extending it to 6-8 weeks like some of their other dogs (which xxxx did mention was how they tended to treat them and they were all stable), and to dose according to the results. I may not have said expressly that if the results showed the dog did not require an injection, it should not be given one and could be re-tested later on – but then I would have thought it was down to the vet to say this to me given they are holding the piece of paper and looking at the Dechra table. Diane did NOT say that it was unsafe to inject the dog and I did NOT insist that the dog was injected that day. Unfortunately there was no third party there and it may have been a genuine misunderstanding on her part but I certainly did NOT insist that Millie was given treatment that day.
xxxx is unwilling to continue treating her unless I am happy to extend her testing regime timetable - there is no real issue in that if he was willing to look at the results in terms of getting her dose down. But he will not support a significant reduction in Zycortal and certainly not to anything close to 1.2. So it will be 2.2. or 2.0 or 1.8 forever. He refused to comment that the 3.8 was far too low and was significant – he said he only considers the ratio in his decisions. So If 31 is the optimum, he did not give at 32.5 and delayed till it was 28.4 but is ok with it being given at 37.89 (but of course that is my fault for making the vet over-ride their clinical judgement etc). There is no logic in this at all. What is the point of me having tests done if they are not going to be interpreted in a logical and consistent way. I suspect that he may not totally agree with Diane’s actions but he is backing her as part of the team. And if the appointment had been with him, there would have been a more open and reasonable discussion as Diane was new to Millie’s situation.
He said he has no experience of managing an Addisons dog on a low dose protocol and said that everyone in the practice who looked after Addisons dogs did it the same way as he does i.e. extended period, and relying on the owner spotting the dog’s behaviour changing. None of the other owners regularly test. He said he would be happy to look at the scientific evidence for low dose protocol if I forwarded the papers to him – though I am not sure how serious this was. If you could send me the link to whatever papers you think I should forward to him then I will do so.
The only thing he apologised for was that the appointment I made with HIM was never a proper appointment as he was not in on that day anyway!
IF I want to go down the low dose protocol I will have to use another vet and the difficulty I may have is if she has a crisis and the other vet is miles away, we might not get there. There was a bit of a threat from him that I was endangering her if I put her in the care of a non local vet as it would slow down a response in a crisis.
The implication was that what we were asking to do was unsafe, untried, and not something the practice would support or condone, so if we want to continue with them her drug regime will be dictated by them.
The vet rang and we had a very unsatisfactory conversation.
According to the vet, I was the one who wanted Millie to be injected as I wanted to keep her to a 30 day testing regime. I stress the word TESTING regime, as it did not mean treatment regime. At the point where the dog was injected, I didn’t even know the results at that point, so how could I know that she was not requiring the injection? Why would a vet inject a dog if it was clinically not requiring treatment just to please the owner? I did say that I preferred to keep her to a regular shorter testing regime rather than extending it to 6-8 weeks like some of their other dogs (which xxxx did mention was how they tended to treat them and they were all stable), and to dose according to the results. I may not have said expressly that if the results showed the dog did not require an injection, it should not be given one and could be re-tested later on – but then I would have thought it was down to the vet to say this to me given they are holding the piece of paper and looking at the Dechra table. Diane did NOT say that it was unsafe to inject the dog and I did NOT insist that the dog was injected that day. Unfortunately there was no third party there and it may have been a genuine misunderstanding on her part but I certainly did NOT insist that Millie was given treatment that day.
xxxx is unwilling to continue treating her unless I am happy to extend her testing regime timetable - there is no real issue in that if he was willing to look at the results in terms of getting her dose down. But he will not support a significant reduction in Zycortal and certainly not to anything close to 1.2. So it will be 2.2. or 2.0 or 1.8 forever. He refused to comment that the 3.8 was far too low and was significant – he said he only considers the ratio in his decisions. So If 31 is the optimum, he did not give at 32.5 and delayed till it was 28.4 but is ok with it being given at 37.89 (but of course that is my fault for making the vet over-ride their clinical judgement etc). There is no logic in this at all. What is the point of me having tests done if they are not going to be interpreted in a logical and consistent way. I suspect that he may not totally agree with Diane’s actions but he is backing her as part of the team. And if the appointment had been with him, there would have been a more open and reasonable discussion as Diane was new to Millie’s situation.
He said he has no experience of managing an Addisons dog on a low dose protocol and said that everyone in the practice who looked after Addisons dogs did it the same way as he does i.e. extended period, and relying on the owner spotting the dog’s behaviour changing. None of the other owners regularly test. He said he would be happy to look at the scientific evidence for low dose protocol if I forwarded the papers to him – though I am not sure how serious this was. If you could send me the link to whatever papers you think I should forward to him then I will do so.
The only thing he apologised for was that the appointment I made with HIM was never a proper appointment as he was not in on that day anyway!
IF I want to go down the low dose protocol I will have to use another vet and the difficulty I may have is if she has a crisis and the other vet is miles away, we might not get there. There was a bit of a threat from him that I was endangering her if I put her in the care of a non local vet as it would slow down a response in a crisis.
The implication was that what we were asking to do was unsafe, untried, and not something the practice would support or condone, so if we want to continue with them her drug regime will be dictated by them.
She was really manic today walking, back to being super hyper and ott. Have spent all weekend researching Addisons specialists who are few and far between but have found research from Michigan Vet School which has a huge research dept which basically says that the dosage recommended by the manufacturer is about x 2 too strong, and you should follow the usa protocol of starting and 1.2 not 2.4! She as injected with 1.8 before she needed it, as well as being too high, so she is very low in potassium and probalby like she is on amphatemines. Found a symposium zoom thing from a symposium on Addisons in November 2021 which basically said that if vets are reluctant to follow the low dose protocol they should just be brave and do it! So everything has been copied to my vet and see what happens. I may have found a place in northumberland which may be more empathetic.
had a long chat with the vet from northumberland breath of fresh air. He was open and honest says he follows that regime with no issues, it's easy to do once you get them on the right dose, so easy to manage long term Spoke about the research papers, watching the symposium q&a and he just said you've done all the vets work for him so if he doesn't listen it's a pity he is unwilling to learn. So will give my vet a few days to reply and on Friday if heard nothing will ask to be referred here and book her next appt with him as he is much more approachable. Has a sense of humour too which helps. When he rang back, as I work from home, I answered with my business, hello this is ....can i help you and he replied, no but i may be able to help you and introduced himself. So we had a good laugh. I think i will get on with him.
Our insurers have finally paid her claim which means it is easier to move vets, her first invoice was September! I haven't heard from my vet at all since our conversation on Friday so I am a bit irritated. She has been utterly manic since the jab, this morning she has been running around woofing since 4am, chasing cats, unsettled, totally hyper she is clearly over dosed. So i am going to start the process of transferring. Doesn't help i put my back out yesterday morning and spent most of the day in bed with pain relief. Had great fun trying to do evening stables and bending to lift hay and take to the ones living out...
Poodle Party at Cramond Beach, two tired poodles afterwards
Millie didn't come in when called from her morning wee, now i know why, found her proudly standing over her trophies. Sam the cat is finishing them off....Have closed the gate to the orchard so hopefully she can't find any more
they were eaten by Sam the cat and the rooks and other birds, so they weren't wasted going into landfill. Have now shut the orchard gate as they must have a nest in there, under the raised beds i would think, so it's very safe for them. We have lots of unkept long grass weedy areas all around the garden which is about 1 acre so they have great habitat and they keep the weeds down as well as eating some things i would prefer they didn't. Sam the cat has been sick several times due to too much bunny.
newrider.com