The old NR - what a difference!!

[nani]

To be honest, i want to meet a Troll!
They sound very interesting

Just using your quote CB to open my post... I googled an image of a troll, and wikipedia has actually got a modern definition, I never knew... I actually thought you were speaking of those neon-haired plastic things we used to collect as children LOL! (anyone remember?)

Yer tis... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

I can honestly say I have been guilty of going off topic, I am a bit brain-floaty (pickled due to excessive wine consumption), but never with intent of 'provoking an [inflammatory] response'.

As far as I see it, we should NOT bring back the old NR. It was nasty more than anything (have you read the archives?) and nasty isn't productive nor does it help anyone. More than anything a forum is for people to share ideas and experiences among people of all backgrounds of mixed ages who share an interest. No one here right now fits the definition wiki gives.

Just because one gets to B via A, G & F - does not mean that going via U, C & R is any worse and what the heck - you still learn something new however 'old' you may be. Things change I've learnt!

Horses are used by so many all over the world in such different ways it's open to cruelty at one end of spectrum and to elitism at the other....

...I love the fact we have a diverse membership - the british are accused of being know-it-alls the world over and it's largely due to the fact that we are often blinkered (pardon the pun) to the rest of the world. We see everyone else as secondary to the way the bristish keep horses. It's untrue.

Lets not be cruel to each other. I've paid £10 to spend my time with like-minded individuals. It's arranged such that if I'm not a fan of something I don't have to participate. I also subscribed to EE at £20 and I prefer NR as it feels more like a proper forum than walking blindfolded into a firing squad. I don't think that people are dishonest either. I think we are polite and are talented at good discourse and those are the main ingredients of helpful forumship.

Cheers to you all! xx

 

[Cortrasna]

Just using your quote CB to open my post... I googled an image of a troll, and wikipedia has actually got a modern definition, I never knew... I actually thought you were speaking of those neon-haired plastic things we used to collect as children LOL! (anyone remember?)

Yer tis... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

I can honestly say I have been guilty of going off topic, I am a bit brain-floaty (pickled due to excessive wine consumption), but never with intent of 'provoking an [inflammatory] response'.

As far as I see it, we should NOT bring back the old NR. It was nasty more than anything (have you read the archives?) and nasty isn't productive nor does it help anyone. More than anything a forum is for people to share ideas and experiences among people of all backgrounds of mixed ages who share an interest. No one here right now fits the definition wiki gives.

Just because one gets to B via A, G & F - does not mean that going via U, C & R is any worse and what the heck - you still learn something new however 'old' you may be. Things change I've learnt!

Horses are used by so many all over the world in such different ways it's open to cruelty at one end of spectrum and to elitism at the other....

...I love the fact we have a diverse membership - the british are accused of being know-it-alls the world over and it's largely due to the fact that we are often blinkered (pardon the pun) to the rest of the world. We see everyone else as secondary to the way the bristish keep horses. It's untrue.

Lets not be cruel to each other. I've paid £10 to spend my time with like-minded individuals. It's arranged such that if I'm not a fan of something I don't have to participate. I also subscribed to EE at £20 and I prefer NR as it feels more like a proper forum than walking blindfolded into a firing squad. I don't think that people are dishonest either. I think we are polite and are talented at good discourse and those are the main ingredients of helpful forumship.

Cheers to you all! xx

Couldnt have put it more eloquently if Id tried Well done nani - you've said it all.

 

[Cleanboots]

Couldnt have put it more eloquently if Id tried Well done nani - you've said it all.

Absolutely, very kind words.
We are all like minded people at the end of the day and we come onto the forum to share our experiences, lets face it, not everyone understands our 'horse language'.

I think we can all have our debates and not fall out with each other (well, not for too long anyway)
That is normal and to be expected, but downright bitching and name calling is a thing of the past now.

 

[rtk]

I can see what you all mean but I stand by the fact that we have lost the balance.

Even when people read posts that mention things they think are wrong they dont say anything.

I have just read a post which in the old days I might have commented on and so would others, but now the only answers are "lovely horse" type and the rest of us just keep quiet.

Because of this I'm not sure that this forum is for anything other than chat between horsey people, which is nice, but not what it was.

 

[Skippys Mum]

I'm with you rtk. There are times I've chosen to not reply at all rather than upset the apple cart - and thats not what this place should be about either.

If it becomes a place where everyone just says yes yes yes no matter how wrong things are then, personally, I would imagine that I wouldnt bother to resubscribe come October or whenever.

That would be a shame because NR was my first ever forum and I have got so much out of it - but it has to be valid - and if we are all just sitting around nodding our heads and agreeing (especially if we are doing it when things are wrong) then it becomes pointless.

We should be able to disagree and we should be able to voice opinions without risking being the "baddy". I'm not talking about ripping into people, I'm talking about politely putting across a different point of view - or saying "no, I dont agree or believe with what you're saying".

 

[Zingy]

I have just read a post which in the old days I might have commented on and so would others, but now the only answers are "lovely horse" type and the rest of us just keep quiet.

You can't criticise others for keeping quiet though if you say nothing yourself

Seriously, why don't you say what you think rather than feeling obliged to say nothing? I really don't understand why you'd do that if it really bothers you. There's no guarantee that your advice will be taken on board, but it certainly won't be if you don't say anything. Why do you feel that your comments won't be taken well? And do you really think that a different opinion would have been better received on the forum before when it was likely to descend into pages of bitching cos you dared to criticise someone's precious horsey?

In the 'old days' there were loads of threads that got about 4 pages of 'oooh, lovely pony' answers before anyone came out with any common sense. Where's the difference? Other than the fact that all the 'oooh, lovely pony' posters are far less likely to all jump on you for not saying 'oooh, lovely pony'. So why did you feel more able to comment then than now?

Maybe it's me being thick, but I really don't understand the problem

 

[popularfurball]

i dont understand why you dont though? Ive found criticism is well recieved, providing its constructive, justifiec and offers alternatives, eg laceyfreckles bit thread. Go for it, that piece of criticism can make a difference. Someone on here pointed out, off topic, that my saddle was a sjocking fit-if they hadnt, out of naivety i may still be tootling about in the 17' narrow saddle or whatever it was! I come on here speifically for the help, knowledge and ideas - so dont stop giving it... Or this troll will smother you with her furry pants lol. Sometimes things look so obvious, but yo the person involved they are not lol

 

[Katie_85]

I'm afraid that I don't understand the reluctance to offer constructive criticism, either. If one has advice to offer, offer it. Especially in light of the overall change in attitude on these boards, what's the issue?

 

[fairlady]

I totally agree that if you see or read something that you disagree with
or a mistake that is blatantly obvious people should say. Its ridiculous that people feel they cannot
disagree OR better still offer constructive advice, its AS ridiculous as the people that felt they could
NEVER post for fear of being 'shot down in flames' but it has come to light and is there for us all to
see that some people DID feel that way, and that is not right !

There are ways of disagreeing or offering advice that does not entail
rubbing peoples noses in their mistakes or belittling them and therefore
should not, hopefully, cause offence or drag on into a slanging match.

If you say

I don't think you should, or you are doing this wrong etc., it comes across
far more aggressively than saying, 'have you thought about trying' or
'i did this in a similar situation and it worked for me' etc., etc.,

Not only do you then come across as a more caring person offering genuine advice rather than criticism, you also don't then come across as a person who's head is so far up their own backsides it sits back on their shoulders
Know-it-all who LIKES to offend and belittle people on a public forum
from the comfort of their own armchairs and safety of the internet..........

As a few of the 'old members' did, I am afraid

They often went out of their way to upset people, just because they COULD !!

I often wondered how many of 'these particular' members would have been sooo outspoken Face to Face,
and I would lay a bet, not many of them !! There is nothing 'fluffy bunny' about it, its called 'being Polite'
you wouldn't walk up to a Stranger, and although we get a 'feel' of people on here, most of us ARE total
strangers, on a day to day basis and be rude and there is no call for it, no matter
what is being asked, on a Forum either.

Long may the new NR continue, there IS room for debate, but I don't think we want the 'pure rudeness or
offensiveness' that was taking over.

 

[rtk]

OK I'm setting myself up now BUT

I now come on here to see what everyone is up to, look at the lovely ponies etc etc

For the most part I dont post anymore, or a lot less certainly.

I was never one of the ones who thought it acceptable to be rude on the old forum, I even founded the "fluffy bunny club" in response to being called one

But I honestly dont come on here for advice anymore, there are much better, more honest places.

I enjoyed the odd troll on the old forum but I didn't like the sheer nastiness at times.

Which takes us back to my original comment, balance. I think we have lost it, its not about anything in the rules, its the whole culture.

Yes its a nice place to spend a while talking to horsey people, but it used to be so much more than that.

 

[Cleanboots]

You see, we are saying on this thread that we should all be able to speak up with honesty and I do agree, there is a lot of 'over nicey nicey' attitude on the forum, and i do think that is because people are worried about coming across as being like the old NR members (some of them, not all)

But i have been honest in my past threads and I have been 'jumped' on straight away, and threads have got a little heated.
So i will admit, I have toned my threads down, and i feel i have to be all sweetness and light for fear of upsetting people, so yes, I agree the forum is too overly polite at times.

There are some threads i read that i could offer some advice on, but if i say what i think, even in a positive way, some people do take humbridge to my comments!

Which is why i carefully 'select' the threads i respond to, or i dont even post at all, in fact i have drastically reduced my posting due to wondering if i should speak out or not!

I actually dont mind being offered advice, even if it is blunt, at least it provides an answer and gives food for thought.
I also tend to remember the more blunt advice more than i do the 'Fluffy' ones, but that is just me and my way of operating

I think i should change my signature because i no longer 'Say what i mean or mean what i say'

I still log on every day (several times a day actually) but i dont often reply to a debate.
Shame really?

 

[Esther.D]

I'm afraid that I don't understand the reluctance to offer constructive criticism, either. If one has advice to offer, offer it. Especially in light of the overall change in attitude on these boards, what's the issue?

Same here - so long as it is constructive criticism then what is there to worry about? Anyone who asks for opinions opens themselves to criticism, so feel free to offer it in a positive spirit

I think we have perhaps lost confidence, as a forum, as a result of the spats that happened in the past, we need to regain the confidence to offer (& take) constructive criticism without worrying that it will all go horribly wrong.

 

[scotnut]

O.k I'm going to put my two pennies into this debate! It's interesting that if people are not so keen on the nicey nicey feel of the new forum that you don't feel it appropriate to give the type of advice or opinions that you feel would benefit the respective posters or the forum as a whole? My approach on this forum is to say how I honestly feel but in a much more positive non bitchy way. I posted recently on a topic which everyone was saying "Oh it's fine just keep pottering around and be fluffy and happy and it will work out" I had to say in the nicest way possible that, no it won't, get off your bottom and do something about it! And do you know after I posted some of the more experienced posters started to agree! I don't believe that being harsh or cruel to people should be entertainment for those sitting behind the security of a computer, I do however feel that this is the place for people to express their honest opinions in a intelligent, considerate manner! We are all responsible for the feel of the forum and constructive criticism is a positive thing in anyone life and when I post that's what I want to hear! x

PS on the boob thing, I HATE my enlarged set and when this baby pop's out they better shrink back to a B cup (Presently F!!!!) of I will have a hissy fit!!!!! x

 

[nat17]

I was never one of the ones who thought it acceptable to be rude on the old forum, I even founded the "fluffy bunny club" in response to being called one

Ahhhhhhhh, the fluffy bunny club!

I remember the bunnys at dawn thread, between NR and anther Forum. It was great!!

 

[Cortrasna]

I have to disagree with the point made that it is no longer possible to post on here looking for advice as you will only get very polite ' oh everything looks fine to me dearie' type of answer.

I have twice recently asked for advice, one on my sticky out feet and general ineptitude with schooling, and another on the problem of my lame loan horse.

Both my posts got what I asked for, peoples personal opinions and some advice for me to mull over. Nothing impolite, or even vaguely confrontational, but on the riding, a few things for me to work on, and on the lame loan horse another perspective on what my options are.

Have to say though, if I DID post something very obviously wrong - I would want people to tell me very clearly rather than let me muddle along getting it all going pear shaped!

 

[Nimbus65]

You see, we are saying on this thread that we should all be able to speak up with honesty and I do agree, there is a lot of 'over nicey nicey' attitude on the forum, and i do think that is because people are worried about coming across as being like the old NR members (some of them, not all)

But i have been honest in my past threads and I have been 'jumped' on straight away, and threads have got a little heated.
So i will admit, I have toned my threads down, and i feel i have to be all sweetness and light for fear of upsetting people, so yes, I agree the forum is too overly polite at times.

I still log on every day (several times a day actually) but i dont often reply to a debate.
Shame really?

With respect CB, I think there's a difference between the comments you got in response to what seemed to some folks (quite alot if I remember) pretty provocative posts about the board in general versus a debate or thread about a genuine horse-y issue . . . feed, riding, care, etc. Folks who commented (me included) simply expressed frustration at the drama of you publicly leaving in a sulk and then coming back again, more than once. I might have missed something, but I didn't see anyone come down hard on you in response to a comment you made on a genuine horse-related thread . . . but I'm always prepared to be proved wrong .

That said, I do feel people are trying over-hard to be "constructive" to the point of not necessarily being honest, but . . . as I have said before, I think honesty will out as the board settles down.

When I ask a horse-y question, I honestly expect to get (and appreciate receiving) honest feedback . . . I asked a numpty question a little while ago about calmers and received some very candid and up-front answers, for which I was very grateful. Thank you to those who responded.

I do want candid, constructive feedback . . . and that's what I strive to give when I post . . . and I believe most other people here do too . . . it's why we've paid to subscribe . . . but it's all about tone . . . we are all intelligent and articulate . . .

Love NR - it's a great resource/community.

N

 

[Cleanboots]

With respect CB, I think there's a difference between the comments you got in response to what seemed to some folks (quite alot if I remember) pretty provocative posts about the board in general versus a debate or thread about a genuine horse-y issue . . . feed, riding, care, etc. Folks who commented (me included) simply expressed frustration at the drama of you publicly leaving in a sulk and then coming back again, more than once. I might have missed something, but I didn't see anyone come down hard on you in response to a comment you made on a genuine horse-related thread . . . but I'm always prepared to be proved wrong .

That said, I do feel people are trying over-hard to be "constructive" to the point of not necessarily being honest, but . . . as I have said before, I think honesty will out as the board settles down.

When I ask a horse-y question, I honestly expect to get (and appreciate receiving) honest feedback . . . I asked a numpty question a little while ago about calmers and received some very candid and up-front answers, for which I was very grateful. Thank you to those who responded.

I do want candid, constructive feedback . . . and that's what I strive to give when I post . . . and I believe most other people here do too . . . it's why we've paid to subscribe . . . but it's all about tone . . . we are all intelligent and articulate . . .

Love NR - it's a great resource/community.

N

Oh i wasn't referring to my 'coming and going 'antics, I am a drama queen and possibly always will be, thats just who i am

I was referring to the thread i started on another subject, but thats another matter.

The point to this thread, is that some people (as can be seen by their responses) feel that they do not feel they can offer advice unless it is 'Sugar coated' in case it offends others.
None of us want to be upset or argue, but some would like to have opinions even if they are direct, rather than have hardly any responses at all.

We are all diverse as humans, and thank goodness for that (how boring if we all thought and acted the same)
And i believe we should be allowed to express our opinions without others judging.
After all, talking to people on a computer is never going to have the same sentiment as a face to face converstaion, you cannot see expression or body language.

Some people may sound harsh in their responses when it is read on a forum, the may not be able to type as well as they verbally communicate.

All these matters should be taken into consideration when reading threads, we develop pictures of people in our heads, and we may very well be completley wrong about them actually.

Now there is food for thought

 

[Roxy's Mum]

talking to people on a computer is never going to have the same sentiment as a face to face converstaion, you cannot see expression or body language

Quite right CB & I completely agree.

I would much rather people were honest in their opinions - I think it's great; it's natural and healthy for people to have different views on things and I think that voicing them can only benefit others and help those of us less experienced and less knowledgable people learn.

I've been involved in a few debates on here myself but it doesn't have to turn into an argument, much less bitching or bullying (like it used to).

What I DO have a problem with, however, is attitude - which is perhaps the basis behind why I started this thread. I know that communicating body language and tone of voice is very different on here but I cannot bear it when somebody posts something like "errr... actually no" or something as blatant as "your argument is flawed" as I just think it's SO rude.

I love debate - but I hate being told that my argument, my opinion, my experience, my knowledge is wrong.

If I'm wrong - if I'm riding with the saddle on back to front - fine, please tell me! But don't tell me that what I KNOW is right, is wrong.

 

[Nimbus65]

We are all diverse as humans, and thank goodness for that (how boring if we all thought and acted the same)
And i believe we should be allowed to express our opinions without others judging.
After all, talking to people on a computer is never going to have the same sentiment as a face to face converstaion, you cannot see expression or body language.

Some people may sound harsh in their responses when it is read on a forum, the may not be able to type as well as they verbally communicate.

All these matters should be taken into consideration when reading threads, we develop pictures of people in our heads, and we may very well be completley wrong about them actually.

Now there is food for thought

Now THIS I agree with

 

[Innocence]

Blimey Roxy's Mum you ain't half set the cat amongst the pigeons with this topic! lol My eyes started to hurt after the 2nd page

Sorry nothing constructive to say